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Defending the Teachers

Mar 07, 2006 12:08 PM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline

Dear Nigel, Dear Friends,

Thank you very much (see below).

Although I am not a newcomer, I am still learning lots of things from these matters dealing with pseudo-theosophy --- and how to face its results.

The theosophical movement was never meant to be theoretical club dealing with beautiful ideas only.

It was clearly meant to be a hard-working nucleous of universal brotherhood, and that means a
probationary common ground where we discuss our failures, illusions, mayavic ideations... and divine potentialities.

I feel at home in Theos-talk.

As to the recent libels against HPB, "The Aquarian Theosophist", Los Angeles, Iis undertaking the beautiful task of editting an independent volume with true letters from HPB. It will be entitled


The subtitle will explain: "This volume contains no libels against the founder of the theosophical movement".

The active defense of our Masters in a 'sine qua non' condition for aspirants to discipleshhip. It is clearly stated in the HPB Collected Writings. It is far beyond the beginners' degree!

Best regards, Carlos.

From: "nhcareyta" <>
Subject: Theos-World Re: A PATTERN OF AMBIGUITY
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 02:47:02 -0000

--- In, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
> "It may be true, it may be false, who knows?"
> Carlos Cardoso Aveline
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> Dear Friends,
> 2) Let's see another example.  C. W. Leadbeater went to Mars and
Mercury and
> had many other absurd fancies about talking to  the Masters,  about
being an
> Initiate, about a Second Coming of  Jesus Christ,  etc.  Yet even
now Adyar
> authorities say: "C.W.L. may be right,  he may be wrong, who knows?
And who
> are you to judge him?"  A firmly  `agnostic' position about obvious
> Those who want to see more sincerity are systematically accused of
> arrogant, authoritarian and unbrotherly.  Thus the discussion is
> taken  to the personal level and the facts are forgotten. >

Dear Carlos
You highlight something which unfortunately has been a pattern for so
many years in various organisations, including here on t/talk ie; the
apparent inability of some in positions of influence to objectively
and openly assess and discuss issues of great significance in our
common search for Truth. Some of us have heard the content and thrust
of your postings all before, many times over, from different
contributors throughout the years. Nonetheless, reminders of matters
of honesty, integrity and truth in reporting would seem to be
essential if our dharma is to "...popularise a knowledge of
theosophy" and whose organisational motto is after all "There Is No
Religion Higher Than Truth". Whilst perhaps of less value for some of
us longer term readers of theos 1 and t/talk to re-hear these
matters, this venue is often the first place where newcomers are
exposed to some of the very unfortunate past and present activities
and stated positions of various individuals, organisations and their
Please continue to give us the benefit of your "insider" experience
and apparently painful realisations. Perhaps certain others may then
realise some of the implications of their less than completely honest
actions in terms of how they affect sincere and committed seekers
after Truth.

For your information, last year I wrote to a member of t/talk:

'In terms of differing "religious or pseudo-scientific" views,
opinions or perceptions, we appear to agree there is no such thing as
a fact. In these situations, tolerance is paramount and, as you
allude, often grossly under-represented.
However, Bishop Leadbeater was clearly wrong in numerous matters of
determinable and demonstrable fact.
He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of
theosophy. On many subjects he did not.
He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's masters,
whoever they may have been! Given the contradictory accounts of
cosmogonies and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would suggest
that he was not.
Bishop Leadbeater claimed to be born on a particular date. Clearly he
was not. He claimed to have attended prestigious British
universities, he did not. And the list goes on and on. These are not
matters of perception or opinion where tolerance and respect are
deserved. These are matters of fact where scrutiny and challenge is
required, particularly when considering his other pronouncements.

Regarding your comment "Is there any necessary connection"; when
dealing with provable facts, there is a need for accuracy and
precision to establish credibility. When considering matters of
perception, opinion or conjecture, particularly when instructing
others in the nature of living the spiritual life, proponents are
usually required to demonstrate some additional credibility through
personal honesty, integrity and lifestyle. Bishop Leadbeater has been
found seriously wanting in these areas.
In situations such as this, where a proponent has demonstrated
undeniable untruths, misrepresentations and an apparently debauched
lifestyle, these must be considered in our deliberations as to
her/his credibility in presenting theosophy.
This is not a matter of unfair harassment of those who fail to follow
the party line. For myself as a facilitator of a number of
theosophical study groups, it is a process of apprising fellow
students of the facts of certain matters to assist them to make more
informed decisions as to credibility and authenticity of information,
however these may be determined by the individual.
In matters of belief, perception and opinion, students are repeatedly
encouraged to believe nothing spoken or written until these have been
presented "at the bar of their own intelligence and intuition." '

And to another:

'Unity or "Brotherhood" does not condone the acceptance of
information which is deceitful, dishonest, manipulative,
condescending, domineering or demonstrably untrue. No amount of
eloquent articulation combined with otherwise worthwhile pleas for
tolerance and acceptance can hide the utter hypocrisy of the

Carlos, as you seem to have adopted this role for this period in
t/talk, please keep writing and challenging for the sake of the
newcomer and the hopefully silent majority. If as individuals, we
can't be reasonably honest and truthful, how can we expect Truth for
all to arise?
Best regards

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