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Re: Theos-World The Mahatmas and a "Liberal" Church

Mar 04, 2006 01:36 AM
by M. Sufilight

Hallo Cass and all,

My views are:

You have a point or two Cass.
Try reading the text by Doris Lessing down below.

The subject has somehow been dealt with before by some of us at Theos-talk.
A few month ago I wrote a few emails asking about "What happened when Blavatsky died physically?"
I think the following e-mails will be helpful texts and give some ekstra answers to your email.

The subjecline to the thread was:

"Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on" (Dec. 2005)

2. Secondly.
The above link contains a link, that deserves attention.
The subjecline to the e-mail was:

"Who was the second messenger ?" (Aug. 2004)

3. Thirdly
Here is a piece written by Doris Lessing on the curse of Christianity.
I emailed it a few month back. I think it unveils in a clear manner, the amount of prejudice, which
still prevails in the western countries because of past deeds and religious narrowmindedness.
The importance of avoiding "Orthodox Theosophical activities" only few theosophists seem to understand these days.

Lessing for instance says:
"It is that for 2.000 years the West has been under a most terrible
tyranny, the Christian religion." (Oct. 2005)

I think it was Katinka who here at theos-talk once mentioned, something like, that any physical organisation also a theosophical one in nature always will be limited in its nature and therefore have tendencies to crystallize or be viewed by outsiders as well as insiders with a limited view as a body, movement or even a sect. This just because it is physical. There are non-physical organisations even if they are related to the physical past of this Planet.

I will add this. The next step is to be part of an sort of almost non-physical organisation instead of the present day Theosophical ones,
which are too visible and physical, and therefore have problems in avoiding secterian behaviors, being viewed
as sects or new age religions. The difference is, that we are today living in informations societies. Everything is more visible.
In 1888 things were less visible to the masses.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cass Silva" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Mahatmas and a "Liberal" Church

Hello Morten
Many of our generation were church fed and for many one lifetime is not enough to encompass the river of tradition and belief. Annie Besant made it possible for those souls to hold on to their traditional religious cultures while embracing theosophy at the same time. They stand like the pillars of Hercules one foot on each side of the ocean. Our children are not in this same situation as they have been reared to think for themselves in regard to their own philosophical beliefs.

Although this is the long way around the mountain, at least it is a step in the right direction. Diehard Blavatskians like me, have no trouble, dumping the baggage of religious dogma and embracing the Secret Doctrine, even without proof, and for no other reason than its grand vision it's logical coherence, and its consistancy with ancient teachings.

Perhaps the Masters through HPB saw that men's minds needed to be revolutionised in their thinking or else we will be the cause of our own destruction, as we can see this happening in the world today.


"M. Sufilight" <> wrote: Hallo Carlos and all,

My views are:

I would also like Pedro and other Leadbeater fans
comment on that quote by the Mahatma, and explain why the LCC
is not exactly losing its socalled - reason the exist - in the same manner
as the by Carlos in the below quoted Priest and Churches.

Here is some more explanation why I am against CWL's LIberal Catholic
Church (LCC).
My poor somewhat almost Middle Eastern Sufi-heart is suffering seeing this
problem, not being dealt with properly.
There are too many members with what I would call Christian-theosophical
tendencies. These same members has a lot of prejudice to
offer the Middle East if they develop their occult skills prematurely or in
the wrong direction.

As Blavatsky said in her 1888 article:

"Moreover, the very raison d'�tre of the Theosophical Society was, from its
beginning, to utter a loud protest and lead an open warfare against dogma or
any belief based upon blind faith.
It may sound odd and paradoxical, but it is true to say that, hitherto, the
most apt workers in practical theosophy, its most devoted members were those
recruited from the ranks of agnostics and even of materialists. No genuine,
no sincere searcher after truth can ever be found among the blind believers
in the "Divine Word," let the latter be claimed to come from Allah, Brahma
or Jehovah, or their respective Kuran, Purana and Bible. For:

Faith is not reason's labour, but repose. "

Leadbeater even himself admits his own double-standard.
Here from "Inner Life" written 1917, C. W. Leadbeater.

The line of ceremonial is one along which many people come, but of course it
must be understood that no religious ceremonial whatever is ever really
essential, and the man who wishes to enter upon the Path of Holiness must
realize this fully and must cast off belief in the necessity of ceremonies,
as one of the fetters which hold him back from nirvana. This does not mean
that ceremonies may not be sometimes quite effective in producing the
results which are intended, but only that they are never really necessary
for any one, and that the candidate for higher progress must learn to do
utterly without them. The ceremonial line is an easy road for a certain type
of people, and is really helpful and uplifting for them; but there is
another type of men who always feel ceremonial as an obstacle between
themselves and the deities which they wish to reach.

In Christianity this ceremonial line is the one appointed by its founder,
through which his magic is to work. The consecration of the host, for
example, is a means by which spiritual force is poured out over the people.
There is often a vast amount of devotional feeling at the moment of the
consecration, and the working of the magic is assisted by that, though it
does not depend upon it. Those who are devotional unquestionably receive
more because they bring with them an additional faculty of reception. On the
other hand, there is always the probability that ignorant devotion will
degenerate into superstition. In a recent enquiry into these matters from
the occult point of view, made in Sicily, I found that there was certainly
plenty of superstition, and much harmful interference in family matters on
the part of the priests; but still on the whole the country was distinctly
better than it would have been without it. We should remember also that in
history we usually hear much of the worst effects of religious enthusiasm,
whereas the good steady progress of many thousands under its influence makes
but little impression."

Let us hear your wise words in response Pedro, Dave and friends.

M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: Theos-World The Mahatmas and a "Liberal" Church

Dear Sufilight,


Perhaps Pedro Oliveira or some other Liberal Catholic
priest could comment this paragraph you quote
from the "Mahatma Letters" ?...

"I will point out the greatest, the chief cause of nearly two-thirds of
evils that pursue humanity ever since it became a power.  It is the
sacerdotal cast the priesthood and the churches.  It is those illusions
man looks upon as sacred that he has to search out the source of the
multitude of evils which is the great curse of humanity and that almost
overwhelms mankind.  Ignorance created Gods, and cunning took advantage of
the opportunity." (Letter 10 in the Non-chronological editions)

Best regards,  Carlos.

From: "M. Sufilight"
Subject: Re: Theos-World Begging money for the "Coming"
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:52:24 +0100


My views are:

John, I guess this is the place...

I did like these words:
  There is one thought which specially brings a doubt to my mind,
especially when I have long since come to realize the truth contained in
following quotation from one of the Mahatma letters:--

"I will point out the greatest, the chief cause of nearly two-thirds of
evils that pursue humanity ever since it became a power.  It is the
sacerdotal cast the priesthood and the churches.  It is those illusions
man looks upon as sacred that he has to search out the source of the
multitude of evils which is the great curse of humanity and that almost
overwhelms mankind.  Ignorance created Gods, and cunning took advantage of
the opportunity."

   It is incomprehensible to me how Dr. Bezants pronouncement that the
of the World Teacher manifests in the L. C. C. with the Herald of the Star
filled with pictures of Priests and clergy, it is incomprehensible how one
can harmonize the two thoughts, especially in view of the fact that H. P.
B's and hundreds of quotations from letters of the masters and also the
early writings of Mr. Leadbeter condemned the vary teachings of the
Christian church as false and misleading, which now are apparently found
be true.

   Having studied the writings of Dr. Besant, Leadbeter, H. P. B. and The
Mahatmas and Sinnett, I must admit that I am completely unable to make the
same harmonize with the more recent teachings of our leaders, especially
view of their references to the L. C. C. and the apparent building or
to build in the world sacerdotal organization or organizations that have
within themselves the seed for greater misery and power than is possible
the present time under Christian Theology.

M. Sufilight with a smile...

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Begging money for the "Coming"

> Was this posted by David Green? Lol. Might someone tell me who or what
> "Timestar" is?
> John
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yahoo! Groups Links

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