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Feb 26, 2006 09:40 AM
by soulsurvivor7771

Mr Carlos, thank you for bringing up 'the autonomy of the learner and 
lay disciple'. We can all decide for ourselves how much of 
CWLeadbeater we choose to believe, without your daily misleading 
posts. 'Real Origin of False Clairvoyance' seems to imply that the 
fact that CWL's clairvoyance was 'false' is a 'given'. 

We can decide for ourselves how much of it is true and how much is 
false. Far from CWL telling us what to believe, it is you who is 
constantly telling us what we should believe. You are like somebody 
from the Vatican telling us constantly not to stray too far from 
the 'word of God' as given in the 'Book'. We don't really need to 
hear that every day from a Fundamentalist Theosophist like you.

As for CWL's methods - they have been documented by Ernest Wood and 
Jinarajadasa and I don't believe they involved group seances. They 
mainly involved travels in the astral world by Leadbeater by himself. 
He may have participated in Sinnett's group but that was not how he 
got much of his material. 

It is doubtful that 100% of information he provides is reliable 
(since it is from the astral world). However, much of what he says 
has been confirmed by others (Carlos, I know you would not believe 
them either, since they are not in the 'Book'). Some of the 
information he gives, like the appearance of the Masters, is useless, 
even if it were true. Elsewhere, in this forum, someone mentioned 
that CWL claimed to have contact with the Christ and the Mahachohan 
(or even the 'Lord of the World') - I would like a reference for this 
if possible. He may have described these persons, but I am not sure 
if he ever said he had talked to them.


Dave--- In, "carlosaveline cardoso 
aveline" <carlosaveline@...> wrote:
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> A. P. Sinnett's Autobiography Reveals
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> Dear Friends,
> The starting point  of C.W. Leadbeater's "clairvoyance" is honestly 
> in the "Autobiography" written by  Alfred P.  Sinnett (see 
> note below).
> Since Mr. Leadbeater got back to London, a few years after 
receiving a 
> couple of letters from a Mahatma, he never joined the Esoteric 
> founded by H.P. Blavatsky.  Any true disciple or lay disciple would 
> certainly do that, but he didn't.
> Instead,  Leadbeater joined the "inner group" of the London Lodge, 
> by Alfred P. Sinnett. All contact between Sinnett and the Mahatmas 
> ceased, but fancies quickly came in to replace actual contact. 
> with HPB's students were most  tense and uneasy.
> Since 1987, this "inner group"  promoted and "mesmeric sittings' 
believed to 
> have mediumnistic conversations with one of the Masters through a 
> named "Mary" by Mr. Sinnett.  "Mary's" real name was Maude 
Travers.  (In 
> 1893, she married Mr. Scott-Elliot, a member of this "inner group".)
> Such pseudo-contacts with the Masters  and other similar 
> attempts were commented by H. P. Blavatsky in her book "The Key to 
> Theosophy", published in 1889. Her words seem to foretell and 
describe  most 
>   of what C.W. Leadbeater and Annie Besnat would do in later 
years.  Yet  
> the whole process of illusions actually started in Mr. 
Sinnett's "inner 
> group" and during HPB's life.  She wroite:
> "Great are the desecrations to which the names of two of our 
Masters have 
> been subjected. There is hardly a medium who has not claimed to 
have seen 
> them. Every bogus swindling Society, for commercial purposes, now 
claims to 
> be guided  by `Masters', often supposed to be far higher than ours! 
Many and 
> heavy are the sins of those who advanced these claims, prompted 
either by 
> desire for lucre, vanity, or irresponsible mediumship. (...) Worst 
of all, 
> the sacred names of Occultism and the holy keepers  thereof have 
> dragged in this filthy mire, polluted by being associated with 
> motives and immoral practices, while thousands of men have been 
held back 
> from the path of truth and light through the discredit and evil 
report which 
> such shams, swindles and frauds have brought  upon the whole 
subject." ("The 
> Key to Theosophy", HPB, The Theosophy Co., 1987, pp. 298-299)
> Note the  important expression "immoral practices".
> It was indeed in Mr. Sinnett's "inner circle" that C.W. 
> imaginary clairvoyance and false contact with the Masters began.  
Also the 
> pseudo-informations about Martian civilization started there.
> In the page 48 of his Autobiography, Mr. Sinnett reveals how the 
then "Outer 
> Head" of  the Esoteric School (Adyar) , Annie Besant, was 
personally brought 
> into his unfortunate mediumnistic séances in 1894.   Soon 
Leadbeater was 
> "adopted" by her as an "occult"  consellor:
> "Perhaps Mrs. Besant's regard for Leadbeater may be explained in 
this way. 
> She had been admitted by her own request to the meetings of our 
London Lodge 
> group in June 1894. Up to that time her psychic faculties had not 
>   Leadbeater was one of the most important elements in our group – 
Mary of 
> course the other. (...) I do not know exactly how the idea arose 
that  he 
> would (...) go to live at the Avenue Road and help the work going 
on there 
> (...)."
> Earlier that same year of 1894, the persecution had begun against 
> William Q. Judge, a long-standing chela and a loyal friend to 
H.P.B. The aim 
> was  – political power.  It is ironical that W. Q. Judge was 
> precisely  of that which Mr. Sinnett, C.W.L. and Annie Besant  were 
> personally doing. A  campaign of rumours stated that Judge 
had  "false 
> contacts with the Masters".
> What's the practical importance of these events to us?
> In the first decades of the 21st century,  it seems to be the right 
time for 
> us to accept the facts, to drop fancies and false ritualisms, to 
> common sense and to take the Mahatmas's pedagogy more seriously at 
> Such a pedagogy points to the autonomy of the learner and lay 
disciple; to 
> the need for  frankness, truthfulness and unity in diversity.
> Best regards,  Carlos Cardoso Aveline
> O o o O o o O o o O o o O o o O
> Mr. A. P. Sinnett's "Autobiography" was published by "Theosophical 
> Center", London,   in 1986 (65 pp.).
> On the personal identity of "Mary", see the magazine "Theosophical 
> April 1987, p. 52, which has a commentary by C. Jinarajadasa on 
> Sinnett's "Autobiography".  See also the short note "Mary 
Unveiled", by 
> Michelle G. Graye and Daniel H. Caldwell, in "Theosophical 
> October 1986, pp.205-207.  (CCA)
> O o o O o o O o o O o o O o o O
> _________________________________________________________________
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