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Feb 21, 2006 10:26 AM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline

Dear Mr. Dave,

Thanks for your commentaries.

I believe it will be enough for me to comment these first lines your wrote:

"Most of the information that Leadbeater provides in his books was
obtained during his travels in the astral world. I am assuming that
are like me and are unable to visit the astral world consciously. So
just like me you can only verify what exists in the physical world."

This is indeed a fundamental point. According to Leadbeater, you should
believe him because he says so. You also should go to rituals, etc.

According to the Esoteric Philosophy, on the other hand, trees can be
known by their fruits.

Masters and true disciples never tell you that you should believe them because
they have such or such siddhi or psychic abilitiy. The spiritual way is not
a contest of siddhis. "Who has more siddhis than the others?"

Masters say (see the " Mahatma Letters") that you must preserve your independence
and learn by yourself. Vatican's dugpas want blind believers. Not the Masters.
Not true disciples. Not true lay disciples. And certainly not true aspirants to discipleship.

If Leadbeater's fancies were more than FANCIES, if they, by now, were more
then funny stories, why, then, dear Mr. Dave, which would Leadbeater's followers at the
Adyar Theosophical Society have carefully and silently HIDDEN their Martian and
Mercurian texts from the public for some many decades?

The tree can be understood and identified by its fruits, and the actions by
its consequences, Dave.

They are hiding CWL's texts and books BECAUSE they want to protect his image.

As to the spiritual, occult and ethical accuracy of the Leadbeater closest friends, take a look at text below, please. I am willing to see you commentaries -- there is much more to be seen about
Mr. Wedgwood's life and "work" if necessary.

Best regards, and I hope your respect for truth will be strong enough, Carlos.




Dear Friends,

Pedro Oliveira has brought to our attention the fact that James Wedgwood was the main founder of the Liberal Catholic Church, and C. W. Leadbeater was only second in importance.

But who was the “main founder”, Mr. James Ingall Wedgwood? More than seven decades later, there is no reason for secrecy about that -- and the facts are already public for a number of years. Two quick glances at his life may be enough -- for the moment.


Ms. Mary Lutyens, the best-known of Krishnamurti biographers and his lifelong intimate friend, will be hardly doubted by Adyar people as a historical source.

She writes in the chapter seven of her book “The Life and Death of Krishnamurti” that in the night of August 7th, 1925, George Arundale made a humble, but ground-breaking announcement: J. Krishnamurti, Rajagopal, himself and James Wedgwood had achieved the fourth great initiation the previous night. They were now all “Arhats”.

Only two days after that, as Mary Lutyens explains, Arundale proudly announced the names of those
who would be the “12 apostles” of the “Lord Christ”, who was now arriving as a Messiah through his “vehicle” Jiddu Krishnamurti. Arundale was extremely close these days to James Wedgwood, the founder of the Church which was clairvoyantly destined to be the priestly and ritualistic instrument of the new Christ.

A few days later, the moment of utmost glory finally took place. It happened in the morning of August 15, 1925.

Annie Besant, the president of the Adyar Society, called for Esther Bright, Lady Emily (Mary Lutyen’s mother), Rukmini Arundale (George Arundale’s wife) and Shiva Rao to make an announcement. Soon they all were in her room. Looking slightly embarassed, Mrs. Besant told them that she herself, besides Leadbeater, Krishnamurti, Rajagopal, Arundale, Oscar Kollerstrom and James Wedgwood, had all had access to the fifth and final great initiation and were now -- ADEPTS. Humbly enough, Besant said that there should be no difference in the way the new Adepts would be treated by the rest of the people and by poor non-initiates in general.

James Wedgwood was very much active providing George Arundale with the insights for such marvellous initiatic occurrences. Coincidence or not, both James and George were now Adepts: a great blessing to the Liberal Catholics, indeed. But Krishnamurti started to distance himself from those miraculous events.


Another moment in the life of Mr. James Wedgwood was not so happy or glorious, and it occupied the entire two last decades of his life. In 1931, just a few years after finally obtaining “Adepthood”, the founder of the L.C.C. “became mentally deranged”, to use Mary Lutyens’ own words. Mary writes in the Postscript of her book “Krishnamurti -- The Years of Awakening”(p. 285):

“(...) As for Wedgwood, he became mentally deranged in 1931 and lived thereafter at the Theosophical Estate, Teckels Park, Camberley, Surrey. He was quite lucid at times but had to be restrained from going out since his madness took the form of taking off his clothes in public. He died in 1951.”

Compared to this, the other founder of the Liberal Catholic Church, the one who used to travel to Mars and Mercury and who had regular conversations with the Lord Christ, was much less eccentric indeed.

O o o O o o O o o O o o O

Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline.

From: "soulsurvivor7771" <>
Subject: Theos-World Re: CWL Describes Daily Life on Mars
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 01:41:59 -0000

Mr. Carlos,

Most of the information that Leadbeater provides in his books was
obtained during his travels in the astral world. I am assuming that
are like me and are unable to visit the astral world consciously. So
just like me you can only verify what exists in the physical world.

So this may be just as hard for you to believe as believing
Leadbeater's stories or that there is a such a person as Sanat
Kumara - but from what I understand, the living beings on most of the
other planets do not have dense physical bodies, they only have
etheric bodies (also astal, mental etc). Hence, none of them are
visible to the human eye (or to Nasa's instruments).

Someday, both you and I may acquire etheric vision and/or learn to
travel in the astral world (this may take a few more lives). When
that happens, we can verify for ourselves how accurate Leadbeater was
in his descriptions (the astral world is full of distortions, so I
sure there are many inaccuracies). In the mean time, please don't
imagine that you know everything there is to know about life or non-
life on Mars.


--- In, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> Some important socio-astronomical discoveries
> made by Mr. Leadbeater,  see below.   Carlos.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> The Founder of the Liberal Catholic
> Church Reports From the Red Planet:
> By Carlos Cardoso Aveline
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> In his book "Inner Life", Mr. Charles Leadbeater made
> revelations about life on the Planet Mars.
> At the time these  "revelations" were first published, in 1910,
most Adyar
> Theosophists believed them all  to be literally true, as the author
> emphatically claimed. Few dared question him. After all, Leadbeater
> to have frequent personal conversations with "Lord Christ" and
other great
> spiritual authorities.
> Yet for some undeclared reason between the 1960s and the 1970s the
Adyar TS
> editors got rather timid and   decided to quietly  remove CWL's
> and Martian revelations from any new editions of  his book  "Inner
> During his several personal though fake and imaginary visits to the
> Mars, C. W. L. – who was the main founder of the Liberal Catholic
Church –
> could see and observe the development of daily life on the red
planet.  He
> reports that some  Martians use metal sandals in their feet, and
that others
> look like Norwegian people on earth.  See  what he wrote in his
book  "Inner
> Life":
> "The whole civilized population of Mars is one  race, and there is
> practically no difference in features or complexion, except that,
just as
> among ourselves, there are blondes and brunettes, some of the
people having
> a  faintly yellowish  skin and black hair, while the majority have
> hair and blue or violet eyes –  somewhat Norwegian in appearance.
> dress mostly in brilliant colours and both sexes wear an almost
> garment of some very soft material which falls straight from the
> down to the feet. Generally the feet are bare,  though they
sometimes use a
> sort of metal sandal or slipper,  with a thong round  the ankle."
> Perhaps C.W.L. was representing  his Liberal Catholic Church
> during his several travels to the neighbour planet –  but we don't
have his
> confirmation  about this. Instead,  Bishop Leadbeater comments on
> Martian's  flowers, gardens and city-planning:
> "They  are very fond of flowers, of which there is a great variety,
> their towns are built on the general plan of the garden-city, the
> usually being one-storeyed only, but built round inner courtyards
> straggling over a great deal of ground. These houses look
exteriorly as
> though built of coloured glass, and indeed the material which is
used is
> transparent, but it is somehow so fluted that while the person
inside enjoy
> an almost unimpeded view of their gardens, no one from the outside
can see
> what is going on in the house."
> The remarkable clairvoyant does not tell his readers whether he
wanted  to
> have his own books published  by the  Martian Publishing Houses.
Yet  it is
>   certain that he got interested in the cultural life of the red
> inhabitants,  for he writes:
> "They have two methods of recording their thoughts.  One is to
speak into a
> small box with a mouthpiece on one side of it, something like that
of a
> telephone.  Each word so spoken is by the mechanism expressed as a
kind of
> complicated sign upon a little plate of metal (...) which can
easily be
> read by those who are familiar with the scheme. The other plan is
> to write by hand, but  that is an enormously more difficult
> for the script is a very complicated kind of shorthand which can be
> as  rapidly as one can speak.  It is in this latter script that all
> books are printed, and  these latter are usually in the shape of
rolls made
> of very thin flexible metal.  The engraving of them is exceedingly
> and it is customary to read it through a magnifier, which is  fixed
> conveniently upon a stand. In the stand there is the machinery
which unrolls
> the  scroll before the magnifier at any desired rate, so that one
> without needing to touch the book at all."
> On the possibility of communication between Martians and
terrestrians, the
> somewhat delirious Bishop  writes that this is not difficult.
> mentioning that there is a secret society in Mars, he explains,
carried on
> by some feverish imagination:
> "Some at least of the members of the secret society have learnt how
to cross
> without great difficulty the space which separates us from Mars,
and have
> therefore  at various times tried to manifest themselves through
mediums at
> spiritual seances, or have been able, by the methods which they
have learnt,
> to impress their ideas on poets and novelists."
> In the next paragraph, Leadbeater describes the first-hand
character of his
> personal  description about physical life on Mars.
> "The information which I have given above is based upon
observation  and
> enquiry during various visits to the planet; yet nearly all of it
might be
> found in the works of various writers within the last thirty or
forty years,
> and in all such cases it has be en communicated or impressed by
someone from
> Mars, although the very fact  of such impression  was (at least in
> cases) quite unknown to the physical writer."
> An important aspect of the Bishop's mission to Mars may refer to
> Mr. Leadbeater, who modestly used to confess that  he had regular
talks with
> Lord Christ,  writes about Martians:
> "One of the most remarkable things about this people is that they
> absolutely no religion. There are no churches, no temples, no
places of
> worship of any sort whatever, no priests, no ecclesiastical power."
> This leads us to raise a question or two to the Historians of the
> Society.  We all know Mr. Leadbeater had strong  Christian
> impulses.  Is is possible, then,  that during his several visits to
Mars he
> was actually preparing a religious mission to that Planet, a
mission  to be
> developed by well-trained  priests of the Liberal Catholic Church?
In  that
> case,  could there be,  right now,  a group of L.C.C. priests
> Mass and feverishly  preaching the Gospel  among Martians? I leave
> question  for  Historians to investigate.
> In any case, one thing is certain: the degree of "accuracy"  we
find in C.W.
> Leadbeaters'  wild  descriptions of life on Mars, is the same
degree of
> irresponsible imagination with which he  described his talks with
Masters of
> the Wisdom,  and created the several ritualistic schemes even now
> behind the scenes of the Adyar Theosophical Society.
> For some unknown reason,  it is these ritualistic quarters which
seem to be
> most  interested in adopting the 19th century libels against H. P.
> as if they were part of the theosophical literature, something
which the
> Adyar President Ms. Radha Burnier does not approve of.  Yet  the
> President  told me in a 2004 letter  that –  she can't  do
anything  about
> that.
> O o o O o o O o o O o o O o o O
> All the paragraphs quoted above are from the book "Inner Life", by
C. W.
> Leadbeater, Section Ten. The text was published  by the magazine
> "Theosophical History", London, January 1988; see pages 144-148 for
> sentences quoted above.  I have the same text in the Spanish
edition of
> "Inner Life", by CWL,  published in Buenos Aires by Editorial Glem
> 389-394). In  later years the USA T.P.H. editions of the
book "Inner Life"
> have silently eliminated this description, as well as the brief but
> astonishing description of physical life on Mercury. Yet a
Brazilian edition
> of the book "The Solar System", by Mr. Arthur Powell – a follower
> C.W.L.'s –  can still be bought in Brazil with this description of
> life on Mars.
> Another author and leading Adyar clairvoyant, Mr. Geoffrey Hodson,
> the same track at least up to the 1950s. In 1954-1955, Mr. Hodson
> a series of talks and classes to students in the international
> of the Adyar Society, in Madras/Chennai, southern India. It was
part of the
> "School of the Wisdom". The content of his lectures was published
by the
> T.P.H. in India, in 1955, in two large volumes under the title
of "Lecture
> Notes -- The  School of the Wisdom", with 616 pp. in the volume I
and 582
> pp. in volume II.  On pages 445-442 of  volume I, Mr. Geoffrey
Hodson quotes
> and adopts, though  in a somewhat cautious way,  the same vividly
> description made by Mr. Leadbeater about a civilization on the red
>   (CCA)
> O o o O o o O o o O o o O
> _________________________________________________________________
> Copa 2006: Já está na hora de saber o que é `Freundschaftsspiel'
> aqui!

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