Re: Theos-World TS natal chart and its implications
Feb 20, 2006 09:27 AM
by Anton Rozman
Maybe this extracts from J. Ransom's Short History of the T. S. will
complete Dallas' information.
AT the time of the formation of The Theosophical Society, H. P. B.
was living at 46, Irving Place, New York. Here she was eagerly
sought out by those interested in the occult and attracted by her
remarkable personality, in the courageous challenge she flung at
scientific materialism, and in the stand she made for the "science
of ancient and proved Magic." (H.P.B. used the word Magic as a
substitute for both Occultism and Theosophy, neither of which meant
anything to the public at that time.) On 7 Sept., 1875, Mr. George
H. Felt, an engineer and architect, gave a highly instructive
lecture on "The Lost Canon of Proportion of the Egyptians," to about
seventeen people gathered in H.P.B.'s rooms. …
An animated discussion followed, during which the idea occurred to
Col. Olcott "that it would be a good thing to form a Society to
pursue and promote such occult research." He passed a note to H.P.,
who agreed. (Mrs. Besant remarks in Lucifer, April 1895, p.
105: "She [H.P.B.] has told me herself how her Master bade her found
it, and how at His bidding she wrote the suggestion of starting it
on a slip of paper and gave it to W. Q. Judge to pass to Col.
Olcott, and then the Society had its first beginning …") He then
spoke of the philosophic character of ancient Theosophies and their
sufficiency to reconcile all existing antagonism, and of Mr. Felt's
achievement in extracting the Key to the architecture of Nature from
the scanty fragments of ancient lore. He proposed to form a society
for the investigation of science and religion; the society to be
entirely eclectic, the friend of true religion and the enemy of
scientific materialism. It would be a nucleus around which might
gather those willing to work together to organise a society of
occultists, begin to collect a library, and to diffuse information
concerning those secret laws of nature which were so familiar to the
Chaldeans and Egyptians, but were unknown to the modern world of
science. Mr. Felt was to teach the right kind of person how to evoke
and control the elementals. It was unanimously agreed that a society
be formed for the study and elucidation of Occultism, the Kabala,
etc. It should be free from the least sectarian character and be
unquestionably anti-materialistic. Mr. W. Q. Judge proposed Col.
Olcott as chairman, and the Colonel proposed Mr. Judge as Secretary.
On 8 Sept., at the adjourned meeting, Col. Olcott was elected as
Chairman and Mr. Judge as Secretary. From among those present the
following sixteen handed in their names as willing to form and
belong to such a Society: Mde. H. P. Blavatsky, Col. H. S. Olcott,
Charles Sotheran, Dr. Charles E. Simmons, H. D. Monachesi, C. C.
Massey (Loud.), W. L. Alden, G. H. Felt, D. E. de Lara, Dr. W.
Britten, Henry J. Newton, John Storer Cobb, J. Hyslop, W. Q. Judge,
Mrs. E. H. Britten H. M. Stevens. …
Newton, Stevens and Sotheran, with the Chairman, were appointed to
draft a Constitution and Bye-laws, and to report on them on 13 Sept.
At this meeting Felt further described his discoveries. Then
business was taken up, with Col. Olcott in the Chair and Sotheran as
Secretary. The Committee on Preamble and Bye-laws made its report.
It was resolved that the name of the proposed Society be THE
THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY. It was agreed that this title "both expressed
the esoteric truth they wished to reach and covered the ground of
Felt's methods of occult research." The Rev. Mr. Wiggin and Mr.
Sotheran were appointed to select suitable meeting rooms, several
new members were nominated and their names added as founders. …
The first meeting under the name "The Theosophical Society" was
called by Henry S. Olcott, President pro tem., for 16 Oct. in the
spacious drawing-rooms of Mrs. Emma Hardinge Britten, the widely
known Spiritualist. It was announced that the Bye-laws were ready,
and that Mr. Felt, if in town, would continue his Egyptological
lectures, also that the officers would be elected. Col. Olcott was
in the Chair and J. S. Cobb acted as Secretary. After discussion and
various alterations, the Bye-laws were adopted.
After this meeting H. P. B. left for Ithaca to stay with her friends
Prof. and Mrs. Corson. …
During H. P. B.'s absence at Ithaca, Col. Olcott was delivering
lectures in New York, launching out against Spiritualism and
upholding the new Theosophical doctrine. H. P. B. returned to New
York in time for the next meeting of The Theosophical Society, which
was held at the same place on 30 Oct. At this meeting the Mott
Memorial Hall, 64, Madison Avenue, was selected as The Society's
meeting place. It was near to the recently purchased New York
Headquarters in 47th Street, into which H. P. B. and the Colonel
presently moved, and remained there until they left for India. The
Bye-laws were finally adopted, and the Preamble was to be further
revised by H. S. Olcott, C. Sotheran and J. S. Cobb. In this
finished Preamble it is said:
"The Title of the Theosophical Society explains the objects and
desires of its founders: they `seek to obtain knowledge of the
nature and attributes of the Supreme Power, and of the higher
spirits by the aid of physical processes.' In other words, they
hope, that by going deeper than modern science has hitherto done,
into the esoteric philosophies of ancient times, they may be enabled
to obtain, for themselves and other investigators, proof of the
existence of an `Unseen Universe,' the nature of its inhabitants if
such there be, and the laws which govern them and their relations
with mankind. Whatever may be the private opinions of its members,
the society has no dogmas to enforce, no creed to disseminate. It is
formed neither as a Spiritualistic schism, nor to serve as the foe
or friend of any sectarian or philosophic body. Its only axiom is
the omnipotence of truth, its only creed a profession of unqualified
devotion to its discovery and propaganda. In considering the
qualifications of applicants for membership, it knows neither race,
sex, colour, country nor creed …"
The Preamble ended with these words:
"The Theosophical Society, disclaiming all pretension to the
possession of unusual advantages, all selfish motives, all
disposition to foster deception of any sort, all intention to
wilfully and causelessly injure any established organization,
invites fraternal co-operation of such as can realize the importance
of its field of labour; and are in sympathy with the objects for
which it has been organized."
The "Objects" of The Society were very simply stated as being "to
collect and diffuse a knowledge of the laws which govern the
To these ideals of freedom of thought and opinion The Society clung
tenaciously, as will be seen. Col. Olcott was ever mindful of this
promise to the world, guarded it jealously and made it his guiding
principle in his organisation of The Society, and each President has
in turn guarded it with equal care from all tendencies to limitation
or dogmatism. Also, the principle of Brotherhood, implicitly
expressed at the end of the first paragraph, soon became the
strongest and most vitalising power and remains the dominating
Object of The Society's work.
The election for Office resulted as follows:
President, HENRY S. OLCOTT; Vice-Presidents, Dr. S. PANCOAST and G.
H. FELT; Corresponding Secretary, MME. H. P. BLAVATSKY; Recording
Secretary, JOHN STORER COBB; Treasurer, HENRY J. NEWTON, Librarian,
CHARLES SOTHERAN; Councillors, REV. J. H. WIGGIN, (Judge) R. B.
WESTBROOK, L.L.D., Mrs. EMMA HARDINGE BRITTEN, C. E. SIMMONS, M. D.,
and HERBERT D. MONACHESI; Counsel to the Society, WILLIAM Q. JUDGE.
On 17 November The Society met at Mott Memorial Hall, and the
President delivered his Inaugural Address. This completed the
organisation of The Society and Col. Olcott chose this date as its
The Preamble, Rules, (under date of 30 Oct. 1875) and Inaugural
Address were published. In this Address the Colonel said
prophetically: "in the coming time it is inevitable that the birth
of this society of ours must be considered a factor in the problem
which the historian will be required to solve." Since the days when
the Neo-Platonists and theurgists of Alexandria were scattered by
Christianity this was the first revival of a study of Theosophy. He
then promised that through his discoveries Mr. Felt would, by simple
chemical appliances, exhibit "the races of beings which, invisible
to our eyes, people the elements," and the name of The Theosophical
Society would hold its place in history as the first to exhibit
these "Elementary Spirits" - and thus astound the churches, the
unimaginative academies of science, the materialists and the "shade"
ridden spiritualists. Written in the SCRAPBOOK is one of H.P.B.'s
shrewd comments to the effect that these were rash statements - it
was "counting the price of the bear's skin before the beast is
slain." The Colonel admitted afterwards that though there was much
in his Address that came true, "yet it reads a bit foolish after
seventeen years of hard experience."
--- In email@example.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck"
> T S STARTED .DOC
> CHRONOLOGY 1875 -78
> NOTES ON THE ORIGINAL MINUTES OF THE THEOSOPHICAL
> PATH, Vol. 10, p. 55, May 1894.
> THEOSOPHICAL FORUM, Vol. 1, p. 95-6--
> OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 1,p.114-18,121-
> OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 7, p. 326.
> [ Start with Mr. Judge's THE T S AND ITS BASIS, J Art
II 156 ]
> From AUSTRAL THEOSOPHIST, June 1894 ]
> "As one of those who helped to form the T S, I may claim
> with personal knowledge of the facts, ...
> SEPT 7th 1875
> "1. At a meeting held in the rooms of H.P.Blavatsky, 46 Irving
> York City, Sept. 7, 1875, it was agreed to form a Society for the
> Occult Study. Upon motion of William Q. Judge, Henry S. Olcott
> Chairman of this meeting, and upon motion of H.S.Olcott, William
> was elected Secretary of the same. Adjourned to September 8,
> ascertained as the facts by those who were present.
> 1, 122)
> Col. Olcott, in OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 1, p. 118,
> this event from memory as follows: (he) "wrote on a scrap of
> it not be a good thing to form a Society for this kind of study ?"-
> it to Judge. H.P.B. read the note and nodded assent."
> [He also makes mention of this on p.114 of his book. OLD DIARY
> (Olcott) Vol. I
> (CWB, Vol. 1, p. 473, 122-123)
> Since Col. Olcott wrote OLD DIARY LEAVES, largely
> some discrepancies have been observed by historians, these will be
> chronicled in CWB Vol. I, pp. 72-3, 94, 121, 123-4.
> H.P.B. later narrated this event to Mrs. A. Besant, who then
> it in the opposite sequence: she [HPB] having originated the
> then, having a note suggesting the formation of a society passed
> Judge to Olcott.
> (see LUCIFER, Vol. 12, p. 105, April 1893).
> There is no question but Mr. Judge was one of the three founders
> Theosophical Society who remained with it.
> SEPT 8th 1875
> 2. Pursuant to adjournment, a meeting was held at the same place
> 1875. It is with this meeting that the minute book begins. Upon
> William Q. Judge it was voted that H.S.Olcott take the Chair, and
> motion it was voted that William Q. Judge act as Secretary. Upon
> the Chair, sixteen persons handed their names to the Secretary,
> to found and belong to such a society. A committee of four,
> Chairman, was appointed "to draft a constitution and by-laws and
> the same at the next meeting." Adjourned to Monday, Sept. 13,
1875, at the
> same place.
> (PATH Vol. 9, p. 1 - facsimile; CWB, Vol. 1, p. 123-5)
> SEPT 13TH 1875
> 3. Pursuant to adjournment, a meeting was held Sept.
> H.S.Olcott acted as Chairman and C. Southern as Secretary. The
> "Preamble and By-laws" reported progress. It was resolved that
the name of
> the society be "THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY". The Chair appointed a
> to select meeting rooms. "Several new members were nominated and
> motion those persons were added to the list of Founders." The
> adjourned subject to the call of the Chair.
> OCTOBER 16 1875
> 4. Pursuant to a Notice dated at New York, Oct. 13,
> Henry S. Olcott, President pro tem., a meeting was held at 206 W
> St., Oct. 16, l875, "to organize and elect officers." Eighteen
> were present. The report of the Committee on "Preamble and By-
> laid on the table and ordered printed. The meeting was adjourned
> October 30th l875, at the same place. H.S.Olcott was Chairman,
and J. S.
> Cobb, Secretary,
> OCTOBER 30 1875
> 5. October 30, 1875, the Society met pursuant to
> Mott Memorial Hall, 64 Madison Ave., New York City was selected as
> Society's meeting place. By-laws were adopted, but with the
> the "Preamble" should be revised by a committee and then published
> "Preamble of the Society." Officers were elected as follows:
> Henry S. Olcott; Vice-Presidents, Dr. S. Pancoast and G .H .Felt;
> Corresponding Secretary, Mme. H.P.Blavatsky; Recording
> Storer Cobb; Treasurer, Henry J. Newton; Librarian, Charles
> Councilors, Rev. J .H. Wiggin, R. B. Westbrook, LL.D., Mrs.
> Britten; C E. Simmons, M.D. and Herbert D. Montachesi; Counsel
> Society, William Q. Judge. Adjourned to November 17,
> PATH, VOL. 10, P. 55-60;
> CWB, Vol. I, p. 122 - 125; 150; 193; 245-6; 375-
> Mme. Blavatsky was by this time (1875) engaged in
> of ISIS UNVEILED. Mr. Judge's brother, John, was of help in
> manuscript for the printers. Mr. Judge's participation is not
> existent records I have read. DTB.
> HPB invited Mr. Judge to help her in 1884 at
> ART. ULT I 468) : "...while I at her request carefully read over,
> in the same room, Isis Unveiled, making indices at the foot of the
> she intended to use it in preparing the Secret Doctrine."
> In THE COLLECTED WORKS OF H.P.BLAVATSKY, VOL. I p.
> are told by the editor that the diaries of HPB for the years 1875-
> "mysteriously disappeared" in Adyar.
> The diary for 1878 find Mr. Judge mentioned several times as a
> HPB in the latter part of the year: [ August 5th and 6th (p.
409); Oct 18
> (p.413); Oct. 30 (p.416); Nov. 12 (p.420); Dec. 3-4(p.425);
> (p.426); Dec. 7 (p.427); Dec. 11 (p.429); Dec. 13-15.
> COLL. WKS. B, Vol I, p. 430.]
> On December 17th. 1878 Mme. Blavatsky and Col. Olcott
> steamer to sail via. England, for India; Mr. Judge remained in
> On Dec. 19th. 1879 (p.433, C W B) Mr. Judge visited them on
> the steamer prior to its actual departure, while it was still
> inside the bar of the harbor waiting for the tide.
> DECEMBER 17 1878 to FEBRUARY 16 1879
> 9. In the year 1878 H.P.Blavatsky and H.S.Olcott were
> under a formal Resolution of the Theosophical Society dated-------
> "Committee of the Theosophical Society" to visit foreign countries
> report." The Theosophist for Oct. 1879, Vol. 1, #1, p. 1, 1st
> "For the convenience of future reference, it may as well be stated
> the Committee, sent to India by the Theosophical Society, sailed
> York Dec. 17th l878, and landed in Bombay, Feb. 16, 1879, having
> weeks in London on the way." (The THEOSOPHIST, Jan.
1880, Vol. 1, p.95).
> T S STARTED
> From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: TS natal chart and its implications
> Dear all,
> I recall HPB writing that the September chart is the real birth
> The November inaugural address chart would be the chart for when
> became a public organization.
> adelasie wrote:
> Dear Vladimir,
> The chart drawn for 8 pm, September 8, 1875, is certainly more
> encouraging than the one for the same time, November 17 of the
> year. One might wonder how an entity of the latter date would
> at all. Does anyone have any more specific data for the founding
> the TS? It seems likely that there would be an official chart for
> founding, considering what the organization is.
> On 18 Feb 2006 at 13:19, Vladimir wrote:
> Saturday, February 18, 2006, 5:46:41 AM, adelasie wrote:
> Does Cranston give a time for the September date?
> No. Actually the date might be considered even Sep.7, because then
> ...Madame Blavatsky's sprightly evening chatter and her
> magical feats continued to draw groups of intelligent people to
> rooms. Among those thus attracted was Mr. George H. Felt, who had
> some careful studies in phases of Egyptology. He was asked to
> on these subjects and on the 7th of September, 1875, a score of
> had gathered in H.P.B.'s parlors to hear his address on "The
> Canon of Proportion of the Egyptians."
> Dr. Seth Pancoast, a most
> erudite Kabbalist was present, and after the lecture he led
> discussion to the subject of the occult powers of the
> magicians. Mr. Felt said he had proven those powers and had with
> evoked elemental creatures and "hundreds of shadowy forms." As
> tense debate proceeded, acting on an impulse,
> Col. Olcott wrote on a
> scrap of paper, which he passed over to Madame Blavatsky through
> hands of Mr. W. Q. Judge, the following: "Would it not be a good
> to form a Society for this kind of study?" She read it and
> But the Meeting Minutes containing the proposal is dated
> Sep.8,1975 –
> a hand-written page is reproduced in the book.
> see Blavatsky: COLLECTED WORKS Vol. 1
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:theos-
> Behalf Of adelasie
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 6:47 PM
> To: email@example.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World TS natal chart and its implications
> Hi Vladimir,
> Does Cranston give a time for the September date?
> On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:35, Vladimir wrote:
> > Friday, February 17, 2006, 5:16:17 PM, kpauljohnson wrote:
> > > Here are a couple of post from a dozen years ago, discussing
> > > November 17th chart for the TS:
> > Sorry, didn't look at the chart, just want to make a side
> > according to Cranston's book on HPB's life, the TS was
> > organized Sep.8,1875, whereas on Nov.17th Olcott gave his
> > speech.
> > Would you please remake the chart for this date and
> > implications? :)
> > Best regards,
> > Vladimir
> LEGAL STATUS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
> Key. p. 309-10
> THE LEGAL STATUS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.
> The following Official Report, on which was granted a Decree of In
> St. Louis Theosophical Society, is art important document, as
> record the view taken of the Theosophical Society—after a careful
> examination of witnesses on oath—by an American Court of Law.
> First—The petitioner is not a religious body, I report this
> for the reason that the word "Theosophical" contained in
> conveys a possible religious implication.
> The statutory phrase "society formed for religious purposes"
> suppose, only to an organization formed in part for worship,
> an individual act involving adoration and perhaps emotional power,
> being of necessity individual acts, or else to an organization
formed for a
> propagation of a religious faith.
> Merely to teach a religion as one may teach algebra, is not, I
> religions work, as the word "religious" is used in the Statute and
> Constitution. A man may occupy a collegiate chair of Professor of
> and as such teach the tenets of many religions. These different
> being variant and antagonistic, the Professor could not by any
> worship under all. Nay, he might even be irreligious. Hence,
> religions is not a religions work in the statutory sense.
> It will be noted that in art. 2 of this society's constitution,
> religion is used in the plural. To teach religions is educational,
> religious. "To promote the study of religions" is in part to
> study of the history of man. I add the subordinate finding that
> has no religious creed and practices no worship.
> Second—The petitioner proposes to promote the study of literature
> sciences. These objects are expressly within the terms of the
> Third—Cognate with the last object is that of
> laws of nature and psychical powers latent in man." These two
> in their apparent meaning, are unobjectionable. But there is
> believe that they form a meaning other than the apparent one.
> The court will take notice of the commonly accepted meaning of the
> "Theosophy." Though I am ignorant of Theosophy, I think it is
> include among other things manifestations and phenomena, physical
> psychical, that are violative of the laws now known by physicists
> metaphysicians, and perhaps not explained or claimed to be
> understood even by Theosophists themselves.
> In this group may be included Spiritualism, mesmerism,
> mind-healing, mind-reading, and the like. I took testimony on this
> and found that while a belief in any one of these sorts of
> and phenomena is not required, while each member of the society is
> liberty to hold his own opinion, yet such questions form topics of
> and discussion, and the members as a mass are probably believers
> individually in phenomena that are abnormal and in powers that are
> superhuman as far as science now knows.
> It is undoubtedly the right of any citizen to hold whatever
> pleases on these subjects, and to endeavour at his pleasure to
> the unexplained and to display the latent.
> But the question here is: Shall the Court grant a franchise in aid
> Voodooism is a word applied to the practices of guileful men among
> ignorant and superstitious who inflict impostures upon guileless
> the ignorant and superstitious. No Court would grant a franchise in
> furtherance of such practices.
> The Court then will stop to inquire into the practices and perhaps
> reputableness of the enterprise which seeks judicial aid. I am not
> to make a comparison between voodooism and this group of phenomena
> convenience (though I know not whether accurately) I will call
> only take voodooism as a strong case to show the Court ought to
> If we now inquire into occultism we shall find that it has been
> used, as is reported, for the purposes of imposture. But this goes
> nothing against its essential character. Always and everywhere bad
> make a bad use of anything for selfish ends.
> The object of this society, whether attainable or not, is
> laudable, assuming that there are physical and psychical phenomena
> unexplained, and that Theosophy seeks to explain them. Assuming
> are human powers yet latent, it seeks to discover them. It may be
> absurdities and impostures are in fact incident to the nascent
stage of its
> As to an understanding like that of occultism, which asserts
> thought superhuman, and phenomena commonly thought supernatural,
> to me that the Court, though not assuming to determine judicially
> question of their verity, would, before granting to occultism a
> inquire whether at least it had gained the position of being
> whether its adherents were merely men of narrow intelligence, mean
> intellect, and omnivorous credulity.
> I accordingly took testimony on that point, and find that a number
> gentlemen in different countries of Europe, and also in this
> eminent in science, are believers in occultism. Sir Edward Bulwer
> writer of large and varied learning, and of solid intellect, is
> have been an occultist, an assertion countenanced by at least two
> The late President Wayland, of Brown University, writing of
> operations as shown in clairvoyance, says: "The subject seems to
> worthy of the most searching and candid examination. It is by no
> deserving of ridicule, but demands the attention of the most
> Sir William Hamilton, probably the most acute and, undeniably, the
> learned of English metaphysicians that ever lived, said at least
> years ago: "However astonishing, it is now proved beyond all
> that in certain abnormal states of the nervous organism
> possible through other than the ordinary channels of the senses."
> By such testimony Theosophy is at least placed on the footing of
> respectability. Whether by further labour it can make partial
> complete truths, whether it can eliminate extravagances and purge
> impurities, if there are any, are probably questions upon which
> will not feel called upon to pass.
> I perceive no other feature of the petitioners' constitution that
> obnoxious to legal objection, and accordingly I have the honour to
> that I show no cause why the prayer of the petitioners should not
> AUGUST W. ALEXANDER,
> Amicus Curæ.
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