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Feb 17, 2006 11:01 AM
by kpauljohnson

--- In, Vladimir <forums@...> wrote:
> Friday, February 17, 2006, 7:24:15 PM, kpauljohnson wrote:
> OK,  let's rephrase: your claim

Problem #1 is reducing the tentative explanation of extensive 
biographical and historical information as a "claim."  That's a term 
more suited for psychic revelations than scholarly 
investigations.  "Your conclusion" would be more appropriate, since the 
evidence and reasoning is laid out for anyone to examine.  "Claim" 
implies a request to be believed on faith.  "Conclude" implies the 
expectation that others may conclude differently based on the same 

 is that HPB lied about the Masters and
> that  actually  they  were  not  those  wise  and  mighty creatures as
> portrayed   in  the  modern  theosophical  lore.  Is  that  a  correct
> representation? 

Problem #2 is the highly charged way you phrase that.  More accurate 
would be "HPB mixed truth and falsehood in her descriptions of the 
Masters."  And you can't really generalize about all of them because 
some of the descriptions seem to have no or nearly no fictional 
elements, whereas others are more highly fictionalized.

Problem #3 is with "not those wise and mighty creatures"-- as Desmond 
just posted, I disavow any attempt to measure or rate these individuals 
on any kind of spiritual scale.  Such is not amenable to the kind of 
investigation pursued.  They might or might not have been, in 
individual cases, as enlightened or evolved as HPB portrayed them as.
That is left an open question.

I suppose, it is effectively equal to "false persons".
No, "false persons" is PRECISELY what my books have been accepted by 
many outside the realm of Theosophical fanaticism as 
DISPROVING.  "Fictionalized portraits of real people" is hardly the 
same thing, since the latter allows for their having genuine learning 
to share whereas the former makes them nonexistent.

BTW you can get a chart for the September 1875 date for free at either or  But the 11/17/75 has thus far been 
used universally as far as I know in discussions of the TS chart-- 
although with mundane astrology one could pick from several dates.


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