Re: Theos-World HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS & Frank's relevant comments
Mar 17, 2005 10:31 PM
In a message dated 02/22/05 3:57:17 PM, email@example.com writes:
>I will have to ask you: Who is the messenger Blavatsky professed to come
>past the year 1975?
>Was it Idries Shah ?
>If not, why not ?
How would anyone know -- (other than the ones who "directly" receive the
As I understand it, HPB referred to that "New Messenger" as one who would
appear in this century (to her direct disciples) and bring them the final
knowledge that would help them verify to the world -- in the "language of this age"
-- that there was such a thing as Gupta Vidya... Also, she said, that its
final proof would answer all their questions about the true nature of reality,
as well as fully justify the system of metaphysics related to both
Cosmogenesis and Anthropogenesis -- which starts from "Absolute abstract motion," the
basis of karma and reincarnation that she gave out in the Secret Doctrine. (I
assume in "outline form" only -- turning just four of the seven keys -- Because
she was limited by her vows at that time.) But, times have changed, haven't
So, it's a certainty, through necessity, that much occult truth was hidden by
the obscure and complex method of her writing for those "intuitive" and
astute students (destined to become Adepts eventually) who could find the higher
"keys" through their own individual study and efforts (both within and without
the Secret Doctrine). I'm sure all the "keys" were given out and scattered
throughout the world's mystical literature (she pointed to), metaphorically and
otherwise, for many hundreds of years before she came along. What else could
be the purpose of the last two objects of the Theosophical Movement that she
"cut in stone" as the guiding purposes of the TS?
BTW, who knows whether or not her so called "outspokenness" wasn't
intentional -- so as, perhaps, to provoke some of the crises of this past century that
led to WW2 and the eventual exposure of the inner workings of the Black Lodge?
In my view, the realities of theosophical work and the promulgation of its
occult truths are not what they appear to be on the surface. HPB advised that
to understand the true occult nature of reality, one must "read in an around
the words and between the lines" -- and let our intuition expose the real truths
of who and what we are, as well as the "powers" we have with relation to the
universe as a whole. It's obvious (to me at least, and to some others who
have pointed it out to me:-) that all the secrets of magic and the application of
the will was given out in the SD and other writings of HPB. And, for good
reason, I'm sure, so as to arm those who had to face the dark forces that would
become powerful during this and the past century (and who are now, apparently,
lurking behind some of the governments in both Europe and America).
In this light, I don't think such a "new messenger" would have anything new
to say about the Heart Doctrine teachings (which could never be added to) -- or
about the practical yoga's which are the basis and practice of the ethics
and morals that teachers such as Idries Shah focussed on.
So, it quite obvious that she was speaking directly (and referred that
Messenger) to the Jnana Yoga students and potential Adept occultists she actually
wrote the Secret Doctrine's metaphysical teachings for ... Those, self chosen
students of a highly motivated interest, and technical knowledge (Jnana) who
could eventually offer the scientific proofs that would convince those of any
religious or atheistic persuasions that karma and reincarnation were fundamental
laws of nature... Based on the verification that the seven fold "coadunate but
not consubstantial fields of consciousness," capable of carrying in their
vibratory patterns infinite constructive and karmic information, was the true
reality of both Man's and the Cosmos' inherent nature as well as the fundamental
cause of their being.
So, as far as I'm concerned -- since HPB spoke directly to her truly
"intuitive students" capable of understanding the deepest metaphysical concepts
leading to a completely consistent picture of a scientifically valid
multidimensional universe based on fundamental laws of nature inherent in the abstract
motion of Absolute Space that governed both Cosmogenesis and Anthropogenesis -- I
don't believe Idries Shah is the particular "Messenger" that HPB spoke about
as coming in this century to add to her teachings of metaphysics that she
merely "outlined" in the Secret Doctrine...
Although, he may be one of the wisest modern gurus around teaching the Heart
Doctrine and its practical application with respect to the conditions of the
present world. Therefore, we might consider him more of a "Guide" than a
"Messenger" -- since his Sufi teachings have been around long before he came on
the scene and brought them into a modern form and application... And, we can
also read everything he teaches in the writings of Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan, Rumi,
Omar Khayyam, Kahlil Gibran, and even Lao Tse, Suzuki and many other great
teachers of practical "living " yoga's, that are both timely and timeless...
They each and all give us the means to find and connect with our true self.
That is, if we have the means and knowledge of how to learn through the
awakening of our intuition through a direct inner visualization and comprehension of
the ever static, yet uniquitous zero-point, as the unchanging root of
consciousness (awareness/will) -- and its abstract motion or "spinergy," as the root
of transformable matter (energy/mass and form in all its permutations, from
spirit/mind/soul, to brain/body).... And, through that path, comprehend the true
basis of karma and reincarnation.
As an aid to this understanding, we might imagine -- "as above, so below" --
that the web-like threads of galaxies, stars and planets, along with the
tendrils of the multidimensional Force that connects them, as being the Cosmic
equivalent of the neural networks and synapses of the human brain... And, thus,
see that "universal mind" and "individual mind" are entirely analogous and
corresponding -- as theosophy teaches... One, an integral part of the other, and
the other an essential part of the One. Thus, reinforcing the ideal of
universal brotherhood. Or, as Dumas put it, the practice of "One for all and all for
As I see it, the New Messenger HPB referred to, came just on time after
1975 (when the hi tech, electronic CGI and CAA tools were coming into place to be
able to picture the truths of fractal multidimensional reality in the
graphical language of this age, that both the scientists and the ordinary people
could understand). His mission was to begin teaching me (and other theosophists
trained in the sciences and technologies of this age) who were capable of
comprehending the exact process by which the Universe is created and how its
consciousness, reflected through the Dhyan Chohans who, governed by those laws,
build the manifest universe and serve as guides (through their direct
connection with out higher natures) -- specifically for those who have ears to hear,
minds to think, and eyes to see and visualize its infinitudes of
dimensionality's and potentialities, as well as its purely scientific correlation's that
interface the higher metaphysics with modern science and mathematics. Where
else could that final "objective" "proof" of theosopbhy come from to convince the
material minded (or "spiritual materialist") people of today?
Thus, the real Messenger, who sparked that new knowledge in me and others
who are currently working on the "new scientific paradigm" that will eventually
prove the truths of Karma and Reincarnation -- was here, went through the
long and arduous study and initiations in the physical and metaphysical sciences
to prepare himself to be able to reach those he needed to teach, and finish
his work before he had to leave the scene and go back to his Devachan.
Incidentally, that messenger, in order not to become a Messiah to all the foolish
"New Agers" and "New Word Order" creeps waiting for one -- would necessarily
have to manifest to each of us "scientific interpreters" as a different
personality who could teach us directly, mouth to ear.
In what personal form he came to others I don't know... But in my
experience, he was a former nuclear physicist and biochemist who became an initiated
Tibetan Lama with obvious (to me) demonstrable Adept powers. During a period of
over five years, on almost a daily basis, he taught me everything I needed to
know about physics, physiology and biology in order to correlate it with the
metaphysics explained in painful detail by HPB in the SD. (He also pointed
out to me how radically that teaching had became distorted by the later pseudo
theosophists -- some of whom, possibly to sidetrack us into making an organized
"religion" out of theosophy and set up a ruling hierarchy, could very well be
dupes, or "plants" of the black Lodge.) Incidentally, I have spotted several
such "plants" in various theosophical groups -- but that's another story.
This separation of the Messenger into different persons, of course, would be
necessary so as to insure that -- when the "message" is finally "spread
broadcast" and accepted in unequivocal terms and beyond a shadow of a doubt by the
world at large -- no cult will ever spring up around that "Messenger" who
brought us the metaphysical basis of those "proofs" that could correlate with the
modern sciences and technologies that now have the world's understanding and
respect (even if currently misconstrued).
However, I'm sure that such a comprehensive understanding will come about
through the unequivocal proofs which Science, as a whole, will eventually bring
forth that could satisfy both the secular "evolutionists" and the religious
"creationists" as well as those of all religious persuasions -- while giving
them a God to respect but not worship, that can be both impersonal and personal
(since it resides in each and all of us). It is these proofs of the "fields"
of higher levels of consciousness, along with the reality of karma and
reincarnation, that may eventually give credence to the practical and right living
yoga's (that embrace all religions and philosophies) as taught by such wise
guides as Idries Shah. (I think Idries would be very happy to hear that. :-)
BTW, when Idries' teacher (I presume) Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan showed up in
New York for a lecture back in the early eighties, my collaborator (on the
theory of ABC) and I went over to talk with him. I can't say what we discussed,
but we both received a warm hug and a good wish blessing for what we told him we
were doing. He told us that Idries Shah and many others were doing the same
work for those who could follow the Sufi way... And, that what we were
accomplishing was good in that it joined their spiritual "messages" with the
materialized Western way. Interestingly, for whatever it implies, Idries, my late
science collaborator (who passed on in '87) and myself are all of almost exactly
the same age, being born in the same year.
The only reason I can account for my still hanging around, is that my part of
the work of helping "spread broadcast" these new teachings through the mass
media -- without any connection to a particular living [or dead] "messenger" --
isn't finished yet... Although, much of the groundwork has been laid down
(we're working on a few books and movies that may soon, hopefully, see the light
of day)... One of them, BTW, has a funny kid philosopher-jokester character
named "Nasty Rudin." :-) As they say. " When the materials are in place, the
magician(s) will appear"-- and the work will be done. Then, all the
"messengers" will disappear [except, maybe, as characters in a film or comic book]...
Which is as it should be. :-)
Hallo Leon and all,
My views are given with *** in the below.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS & Frank's
> Morton, et al.
> To set the record straight... Frank is not Leon.
I think I will agree on that.
> One is a Hitler lover. The other is a survivor of WW2 and the Nazi
> concentration camps, gas chambers, and human crematories that Hitler
> sanctioned -- in direct opposition to the Heart Doctrine principles
> promulgated by HPB.
> HPB simply told the truth about war and the evil geniuses that promote it
> for their own selfish reasons. To pass the blame for World War II onto her,
> however implied -- rather than on the cabal of black magicians (who knew
> all the occult secrets long before HPB came on the scene) and used Hitler's
> psycho-pathological anger, personal frustration and delusional madness
> that fueled his charisma, to fulfill their nefarious aims, not to mention
> such an implication to justify Hitler's actions -- is the height of
> nazi "Deutsche Chutzpah" (as many holocaust survivors might say :).
Yes. I agree.
But she might have had an influence in the events taking place during WW II-
exactly because she was too outspoken.
--- The Master Morya letter --- Received Allahabad, 3rd March, 1882. ---
I will talk a bit from my own experience:
An Initiate of the 4th level often knows about - events of the future - on
a level of 100 years ahead or even more.
We are not talking about peanuts here. There is great responsability on the
shoulders of the Initiate,
which from time to time are tested by its (ie. his or hers) mentors.
> I would agree, however, that Hitler was simply one of the stooges of these
> "Dugpas" -- like many "politicians" are today on many levels of power and
> private interests (both religious and economic) in many countries
> throughout the
> world. All the rest of us, apparently, are either their disposable "cannon
> fodder" to use up their ammunition and wear out their war machines so they
> can profit by making more -- or we are the "consumers" of their products
> that are
> designed to keep us hungering for more of the pleasures of owning
> something new
> (Isn't that why new automobiles are perfumed up to smell so nice?) or
> one step ahead of our neighbors, and becoming habituated to their
> medicines" designed to palliate rather than cure, etc., etc.
What is the difference between good and bad - we may ask?
What to some is the devil - is to others a God.
The world is sort filled only with love. Love has many vibrations.
The lowest of them is, what we call Evil.
Yet, we admit, that we through suffering learns to act with compassion.
A few words on phony Gurus:
> We could go on and on about how the ordinary public is constantly deluded
> by their selfishly, and thus, anti-theosophically motivated propaganda
> on half truths and outright falsities) to sell their products (including
> politicians) as well as promote fears that justify their wars -- which
> flood the mass
> media -- that they own and control... So, round and round it goes, and
> when it
> will stop, nobody knows...
> But, Truth is truth, and has no relationship to the manner in which
> people interpret and apply it. And, one can't blame the messenger for the
> actions of others which may or may not be triggered by the message.
There is a difference in using the word "blame" and then plastering upon
others that they have used the word, when they talked about Blavatsky being
> HPB simply spoke the truth as she was taught it, practiced it, and proved it
> for herself... Her mission was to show us the path to finding that Truth for
> ourselves. Something which we should all start doing instead of arguing
> who is right and who is wrong. Or whether HPB's approach to theosophy or
> Idris Shah's is the right way in this day and age.
I will have to ask you: Who is the messenger Blavatsky professed to come
past the year 1975?
Was it Idries Shah ?
If not, why not ?
> As (take it or leave it) advice about how to go about this... We must
> remember that each spiritual teacher who tries to interpret or expand upon
> the original fundamental teachings, sees only that portion of the Truth
> their own particular point of view colored by their own conditioned beliefs
> and personal desires.
Does a true spiritual teacher necessarily do that ?
Also a teacher using a coded message - like for instance the ABJD scheme and
others by having several layers of teachings in their writings?
> The game, then, is to be open minded and dispassionately examine each of
> those points of view, try to understand the personal psychological
> motives of
> each of the teachers behind them, compare their interpretation with the
> teachings, and then synthesize and extract the real truth for ourselves --
> which can never be spoken, written, or diagrammed, but only
> self-experienced as a
> direct (from spirit to mind) intuitive insight that sees all possible
> of view simultaneously.
> As for taking direct action to solve the world's present dilemmas... Well,
> that's a horse of another color
Perhaps this would be recognisable:
True and False Teachers...
Since there are so many people all over the world claiming that they are
spiritual teachers, many of those who want to follow them - and those who
want to refute them - spend much of their time trying to work out which are
real ones and which are not.
What is rather remarkable is that a great many of these self-styled teachers
are discernibly not teachers, if studied with the normal rational apparatus
which is of some value even to seekers after truth.
There is a story about a man who went up to another one who was selling what
he described as "the most delicious and irreplaceable honey in the world" in
a market-place. "If it is so marvellous," he asked, "why are you selling
"I wouldn't try, you may be sure," answered the honey-seller, "if a mouse
hadn't fallen into it!"
Now, in spiritual matters it may be claimed that the seeker, however
sincere, cannot tell whether there is a mouse in the honey of the teaching
which he offered. But if he would only steel himself to look at the honey
with dead mice floating on top, he would start to learn how to recognise the
real thing. If you can test a verifiable counterfeit, you will eventually
find a coin which is gold. Those who start at the other end: who can test
gold without being confused by counterfeits, are different lot of people,
sad to say.
> In a message dated 02/21/05 5:02:15 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org
> Hallo all,
> My views are:
> I think one or two of the Masters
> are supposed to have said, that she - H.P. Blavatsky
> was not quite reliable in certain respects.
> There is also the issue, that the one of the Masters
> said that she HPB was too outspoken.
> --- And this is maybe the key to the below article by her. ---
> HPB's article might have sparked some of the events
> that really took place in europe during WW II.
> Remember certain initiates of a more or less gray nature read HPB's papers
> or "learned" from her.
> So I suggest, as Leon almost says, that we view it all
> in the karmic historical perspective -
> while not letting HPB be regarded as
> entirely without faults.
> Do you not agree Daniel ?
> And as for "Puppets" in the below. If we refer them to WW II:
> Even USA used propagandic communcation heavily during the WW II.
> And the population in USA could also back then be viewed as mere
> (Not to mention the use of propaganda today.)
> Let us remember that the Korean war came only few years later.
> And then came Vietnam.
> So Blavatsky's words focusses perhaps way too much
> on Germany's or Europe's fate when we view her words - today - say by year
> 2005 average standard knowledge.
> That is why words and teachings has to be given
> according to time, place, people and circumstances - and not necessarily
> a Bible or Guru on display using the name Blavatsky.
> I hope you get my drift Daniel Caldwell.
> (I would like if the readers would keep the following email of mine in
> and perhaps relate it to Blavatsky's Esoteric Section
> when they follow these debates on theosphy "a la Blavatsky version" or "a
> today 2005 Idries Shah verison":
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/22241 )
> We live and die. The Law of Karma is real to us who knows about it.
> To others it is still just a maybe or maybe not.
> And there are several levels of knowledge about this law for those of us
> knows about it.
> Right now I am sort of looking forward to what is going on around the
> UN organisational reforms
> and the possible reforms of the UN Security Counsil and its USA "puppets".
> And also the European Unions
> talks about letting Turkey become a member of its party. The new African
> counsil are also of the greatest interest.
> There are some positive signs in India and other countries as well.
> These issue are of concern today, since we deal with the corruption in
> society and government (ie. Peace on earth)
> and how to get rid of the evils and neclects of wisdom.
> The past plays a role here. Psychic (media and law) censorship in Germany
> and now today also in USA tells their tales.
> And the various cultures clashes internally and externally.
> But let us lighten up a bit Leon. Germany is a member of the EU (although
> has its faults of corruption and the like)
> And because of its membership Germany is not that alone anymore. So "nie
> wieder" as we say. >:-)
> (But Goering sort of got his say if we look at EU, and that is not a very
> pretty sign.)
> There will be peace in Israel.
> No doubt in my mind about it.
> There will be ups and downs.
> But wisdom will prevail.
> It will all turn out very well.
> I know this.
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <email@example.com>
> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:26 PM
> Subject: Theos-World HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS & Frank's
> relevant comments
>> First, the extract from HPB's article titled KARMIC VISIONS
>> where she writes:
>> A hideous dream detaches itself from a group of
>> passing visions, and alights heavily on his aching
>> chest. The night-mare shows him men, expiring on the
>> battle field with a curse on those who led them to their
>> destruction. Every pang in his own wasting body brings
>> to him in dream the recollection of pangs still
>> worse, of pangs suffered through and for him. He sees
>> and feels the torture of THE FALLEN MILLIONS, who die
>> after long hours of terrible mental and physical
>> agony; who expire in forest and plain, in stagnant ditches
>> by the road-side, in pools of blood under a sky made
>> black with smoke. His eyes are once more rivetted to the
>> torrents of blood, every drop of which represents a
>> tear of despair, a heart-rent cry, a life-long sorrow.
>> He hears again the thrilling sighs of desolation, and
>> the shrill cries ringing through mount, forest and
>> valley. He sees the old mothers who have lost the light
>> of their souls; families, the hand that fed them. He
>> beholds widowed young wives thrown on the wide, cold world,
>> and beggared orphans wailing in the streets by the
>> thousands. He finds the young daughters of his bravest
>> old soldiers exchanging their mourning garments for
>> the gaudy frippery of prostitution, and the Soul-Ego
>> shudders in the sleeping Form. . . .
>> ...His heart is rent by the groans of the famished;
>> his eyes blinded by the smoke of burning hamlets,
>> of homes destroyed, of towns and cities in smouldering ruins. . . .
>> "What have they brought thee or to thy fatherland, those bloody
>> victories!" whispers the Soul in him. "A population clad
>> in iron armour," it replies. "Two score millions of men dead
>> now to all spiritual aspiration and Soul- life. A
>> people, henceforth deaf to the peaceful voice of the honest
>> citizen's duty, averse to a life of peace, blind to the arts
>> and literature, indifferent to all but lucre and ambition.
>> What is thy future Kingdom, now? A legion of war-puppets
>> as units, a great wild beast in their collectivity. A beast that,
>> like the sea yonder, slumbers gloomily now, but to fall with
>> the more fury on the first enemy that is indicated to it.
>> Indicated, by whom? It is as though a heartless, proud
>> Fiend, assuming sudden authority, incarnate Ambition and Power,
>> had clutched with iron hand the minds of a whole country. By
>> what wicked enchantment has he brought the people back to those
>> primeval days of the nation when their ancestors, the yellow-haired
>> Suevi, and the treacherous Franks roamed about in their warlike
>> spirit, thirsting to kill, to decimate and subject each other?
>> By what infernal powers has this been accomplished? Yet the
>> transformation has been produced and it is as undeniable as the fact
>> that alone the Fiend rejoices and boasts of the transformation
>> effected. The whole world is hushed in breathless expectation.
>> Not a wife or mother, but is haunted in her dreams by the
>> black and ominous storm-cloud that overhangs THE WHOLE
>> of Europe. The cloud is approaching. . . . . .It comes nearer
>> and nearer OH WOE AND HORROR! I foresee once more for earth
>> the suffering I have already witnessed. I read the
>> fatal destiny upon the brow of the flower of Europe's youth. . . .
>> [caps added]
>> Now, Frank's comments to me:
>> As you quote from HPB's article "Karmic Visions"
>> one could conclude that you identify Hitler in
>> this vision, don't?
>> It seem you share the same exoteric, dead letter
>> view that also Annie Besant held in her German
>> Is no other interpretation possible?
>> Is it not possible that HPB - limited to karmic
>> law to not interfere with outer incidents - used>> the mystery language?
>> And even if your exoteric interpretation is right:
>> Should it not be checked by real history?
>> So Frank, what is your "esoteric" interpretation
>> of what HPB writes? Here is your chance to give
>> the other side. Please do.
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