Theos-Talk Archives (February 2002 Message tt00896)

Larry: "The idea of a "central sun" certainly did not originate
with Randolph in 1856. Joseph Smith was talking and writing about that 
as early as 1835 and it was certainly well known among Mormons by his 
death in 1844."

Thanks Larry I appreciate this information, in fact you are one of
the verry few that actually has something correct to say reg. what i 
have put on theos talk , wich by the way is never intended by 
me to mean "I am right", but "let me know better if possible", in a 
concise manner. 

What you mentioned reg. J.Smith is an important (re-) discovery. Those
who want to type in "joseph Smith"+"central sun" into Google will find
many links, I am studying them now.

As for Joseph Smith, I am not an expert on him, but I am certainly 
intrigued, and after what you wrote even more so.

The only place where I included some information ( the little I 
personally researched about Smith) is in a posting I once prepaired 
about what I called an "invented Egypt" 
( referred to it a few times, for example recently: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/5752) 
but never send it off due to so many other subjects that constantly came 
up.

Masonic connections and Smith have been well established but what do 
you think about the rumours about a Memphis-Misraim or "Cagliostro"
type Masonic influence ? 

If you type "joseph Smith"+Cagliostro into Google you will see the
links:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22joseph+Smith%22%
2BCagliostro&btnG=Google+Search

Randolph wrote in "Dealings with the Death" 
published in 1861 p.44 , that the  
idea "Central Sun" came to him "by the 
spirits in Bufallo 1856."

But this again shows that what mediums mostly bring forth is what is in 
their own "subconscious" (for lack for a better word at the moment, 
because the word subconscious is of course a fallacy in itself) as 
already shown that have internalized things they read, heard an saw 
earlier in their life, and the similar to a fiction writer that can write l=
arge 
sequential volumes of books (without trance even) create their own 
mélange of it and then it comes out again.

See for example Théodore Flournoy's classic work, the French, "Des 
Indes à la Planète Mars", or the English, "From India to the Planet 
Mars", ed. and intro by Sonu Shamadansi, foreward by C.G. Jung, 
commentary by Mireille Cifali. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 
1994.

The medium Hélène Smith in question already spoke of "planetary 
cycles", which of course belonged to the European occult tradition (since 
about two hundred years before that ) that Blavatsky was of course 
verry familiar with. 

Including the idea of the Monad by the way, that shows up later in 
Blavatsky's SD, was a definite part of the European occult tradition 
published in countless of books in Europe of the 18th and 19th century.


But people that are not familiar with any of this like most Theosophist, 
will not realise any of this and next ignore it. Most Theosophists in fact=
  
truly do not want to inform themselve of the historical background of 
Blavatsky and Theosophy and are totally ignorant of esotericism and its 
history because they consider Isis and the SD as holy books revealed by 
a religious founder, which is believed on faith. 

And as a result of that of course common sense historical inquiry has 
to be demonized because it threatens the religious status quo. Just as 
those who said the earth might not be just flat, as metaphysics  
(religious) "science" that time claimed.

By the way writing this posting to you reminds me I want to look up this 
quote about Joseph Smith and Theosophy in this 2001 Dr.thesis that I 
mentioned, soon.

With respect, =
Bri.



--- In theos-talk@y..., Larry F Kolts <llkingston2@j...> wrote:
> Hi Brigitte,
> 
> The idea of a "central sun" certainly did not originate with
Randolph in
> 1856.
> 
> Joseph Smith was talking and writing about that as early as 1835
and 
it
> was certainly well known among Mormons by his death in 1844.
> 
> From the Mormon BOOK OF ABRAHAM:
> 
> "And I saw the stars that they were very great, and that one of
them 
was
> nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones 
which were
> near unto it; and the Lord said unto me:These are the governing 
ones; and
> the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for
I 
am
> the Lord the God; I have set this one to govern all those which
belong 
to
> the same order as that upon which thou standest. Abr. 3:2-3
> 
> There is even a Mormon hymn IF YOU COULD HIE TO KOLOB.
> 
> Does this mean that Randolph got his ideas fron the Mormons? 
Probably
> not. That being so, it is just as likely that HPB did NOT get her
idea
> from Randolph. Great scientists have often arrived at identical
> conclusions in a time frame not far from each other, only one is 
credited
> with the discovery, yet both reached the same conclusions through
> independent research. Could not other great minds reach similar
> conclusions about various other things. I understand that the
> "non-spiritual" mindset can't allow for that, but those of us who do
> believe in "inspiration" and especially if we do not insist on
> exclusivity, can allow that Joseph Smith and HPB, yes and Randolph 
too,
> each arrived at similar conclusions based on study and inspiration.
I
> would add, however, that only HPB's conclusions are part of a wisdom
> system that covers ALL the bases, i.e. is the most complete.
> 
> Just a thought. Are there others we have not heard of that may have 
had
> knowledge of a central sun?
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
> Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:14:34 ST leonmaurer@a... writes:
> > Who cares who first wrote down the concept of a "Central Sun" 
being 
> > in the 
> > middle of any group of orbiting stars or planets? Only
historians, 
> > apparently, or HPB bashers, I might presume. 
> > 
> > For occultists, however, that idea is as old as Hermes and 
> > Pythagorus.  
>  
> > In a message dated 02/25/02 1:08:27 AM, bri_mue@y... writes
>  
> > >The idea and the first formulation of a "Central Sun" comes
from 
> > the 
> > >trancelectures of P.B.Randolph, and can be traced to exactly
1856, 
> > >twenty years befor Blavatsky wrote the SD in the same country, 
> > using 
> > >exactly the same idea as Randolph before.
> 
> 
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