RE: Theos-World RE: On authority....
Jan 14, 2002 05:28 PM
January 14, 2002
Here are some answers below in your text, also let me observe:
1 Novelty is not WISDOM because it is newly discussed.
2 All WISDOM is based on fundamental PRINCIPLES.
3 H P B set down those FUNDAMENTALS for Theosophists to STUDY.
4 Modern inquiries and questions concerning the FUNDAMENTALS are
always in order. Bu modern views do not make the old statements
automatically obsolete or incorrect.
5 Theosophy is both HISTORY and a SCIENCE that explains the MORAL
EFFECT of all individual choices.
7 All Progress for the individuals making up mankind is by
thought and by previewing the inevitable moral and ethical
effects of their individual choices everywhere.
See below for more comments,
From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:44 AM
Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: On authority....
I have answered as best I could your inquiries,. and have set
this aside for some time to see if I can make it clearer.
From: Morten Sufilight [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: On authority....
HI Dallas and all of you,
Thank you for you interesting answer.
My comments are in the Below - using ***.
COMMENTS BELOW January 14, 2002
January 12, 2002
THEOSOPHY is as I understand it a condensed report on the state
of the Universe and of Man.
To a large extent it is HISTORY.
***Yes. But the books of HPB and others on Theosophy are very
old - and often not/ or more than one time not - the best
material for new seekers of wisdom - to read anymore. Especially
those reading by the dead-letter yet, (i.e. not using the 7
keys). That is my view Dallas.***
DTB INCORRECT MODERNITY ALONE, DOES NOT DESTROY FUNDAMENTALS
FUNDAMENTALS ARE UNIVERSAL AND IMPERSONAL TRUTHS WHICH ARE NOT
AFFECTED BY TIME.
It tells about the creation of UNIVERSES, and the evolution of
it explains that every beginning is in SPIRIT which is eternal
It speaks of UNIVERSAL MIND as the Universal Energy that puts all
forms together according to their level of development As such
it works closely with Karma
Universal law (named Karma) is the result of all choices made by
The universal fact of manifestation and evolution is explained
metaphysically as " THE DESIRE OF THE UNIVERSE TO KNOW ITSELF."
To achieve this it divides itself into two parts of equal
strength and power but diametrically opposed. We thus have
SPIRIT and MATTER. Mind is the intermediary at the balance point
between these two and "sees both sides." If spirit is considered
to be WISDOM, then, Matter is IGNORANCE.
In it reside Memory, Imagination, Thought, Will, vision, and
illusion (or Maya)
It speaks of the indestructible components of Nature (the
Universe) as Monads -
We are MONADS -- spiritual in essence, -- universal in
otency, -- and limited as forms.
The manifested universe provides the field of experience (all the
Monads of lesser experience provide the myriad kinds of forms
We (as Mind-Monads) provide the benevolence, the generosity, the
wisdom of experience. We as Spiritual entities, provide the
whole energy and wisdom of cohesion and of dispersion as well as
of every movement in time and space.
The eternal background is the Parabrahmic ABSOLUTE -- the
EVER-EXISTENT, and the INDESCRIBABLE.
The controversies that arise between students reside more on
stubbornness and a continued attempt to support earlier made
opinions than on a perception, jointly, of facts.
***Yes. But what about - LATER - (even future ones) opinons on
Theosophy ? Should we follow the idea of HPB's in Section 2 of
The Key to Theosophy, answer to which systems of thought
Theosophy supports she stated: "We cull the good we find in
What do you all think ?***
DTB OPINIONS HAVE TO BE PROVED CORRECT. LIKE MATHEMATICS THE
MORAL AND ETHICAL EFFECT OF OUR CHOICES DETERMINES OUR KARMA AND
THIS IS NOT A UNIVERSE OF CHANCE, LUCK OR HOPE ALONE. THERE ARE
LAWS AND RULES TO BE FULLY LEARNED.
LAWS, TRUTHS AND BASICS ARE NOT CHANGEABLE. IF THEY CHANGE THEN
THEY ARE NO TRUE OR BASIC.
Truth is eternal, unmodifiable and is independent of any dates.
Now let's turn to the other statements / questions you make. Let
me ask you pardon in advance for some very strong and forthright
statements. These are made as I understand, and have learned
The only "authorities" today are the same as ever before: the
TEACHINGS and the PROPOSITIONS. They have been tested and proved
over millennia (see S D I 272-3)
***Yes Dallas, but in different forms, and languages using
different words of communication, cultures, on different levels
of conciousness, and creations.***
DTB AGREE THAT THERE ARE MAY WAYS OF EXPRESSING TRUTH, BUT AT ALL
TIMES AND IN ALL PLACES AND TO ALL PEOPLE 2 + 2 = 4 ( 1
million years ago, today, 1 million years in th future )
MATHEMATICS, LOGIC AND SCIENCE TRANSCEND ALL LANGUAGE BARRIERS.
Every student or devotee is his own authority. No other "person
(s)" can be safely taken as "authority," unless, following the
lead given us by H P B and the Mahatmas, they provide us with the
facts and reasoning we can verify.
WE HAVE TO DO THE WORK.
***Exactly, I agree.***
We cannot buy Truth, or wisdom, or "magic" for a fee or from
misplaced "devotion," and "loyalty. And from the very outset we
can only devote ourselves to study and discern the true from the
false, the everlasting, from the fleeting and misleading. When
that is gasped we can apply, and help.
***But some new seekers of wisdom will learn more if they are
offered to pay. - But - I agree, it is even better to show an
DTB PAYMENT OF NO KIND WILL EVER BE FULLY VALUABLE TO ACTUALLY
RECOMPENSE IMPERSONAL AND UNIVERSAL WISDOM. WISDOM IS IN NATURE.
IT IS FREE. IT IS AVAILABLE TO ALL.
IF ANY ONE IS TRULY WISE THEY WILL NOT BE ASKING PAYMENT. THEY
WILL BE RICH BEYOND DREAMS.
BUT HOW MANY "WISE" HAVE YOU FOUND WHOSE TEACHING IS CLEAR AND
WE HAVE TO MAKE OURSELVES INTO OUR OWN AUTHORITIES. In this
there is neither superior nor inferior, all are EQUALS. We are
all spiritual Monads, and in our common spiritual base we are all
equally wise and good. We have to make this a matter of
But we cannot expect to take and use others' "short-cuts." We
have to make our own direct connection with the ever living
WISDOM RELIGION -- THE SNATANA DHARMA that ever lives. We have
to prove for ourselves the value and the virtue of all teachings
H P B said it clearly" "Do not follow me, or my Path. Follow
the Path I show, -- the Masters who are behind."
She gave us much -- a revolution of the Mind processes and the
Wisdom capacity of the whole of our humanity is already affected
by the teachings of THEOSOPHY -- and as time progresses, there
will more of this visible and effective. We have to study, so as
to perceive this and make ourselves effective assistants.
***Yes. But som of those who are living today - in reality -
walks the PATH - of spiritual development etc. - by using a -
litterally seen different system than that of HPB's.***
DTB THAT REMAINS TO BE PROVED. DO THEY SAY SO, OR CAN THEY PROVE
WHAT THEY CLAIM ?
H P B DID NOT TEACH HER OWN TRUTHS. SHE CAME TO TEACH
THEOSOPHY -- A SYSTEM THAT IS TH SAME SINCE THE BEGINNING OF
TIME -- ANY ONE CAN PROVE IT. IT DOES NOT AND CANNOT CHANGE
IT INCLUDES ALL RELIGIONS AND SCIENCES BECAUSE IT IS AT THEIR
THE THREE BASIC ARE:
1. SPACE IS EVERYWHERE AND IS NOT TO BE MEASURED. IT INCLUDES
2. LAW IS EVERYWHERE -- IT CANNOT BE DESTROYED. GOOD FOLLOWS
GOOD, AND BAD FOLLOWS BAD.
IT IS ETERNAL AND IMPARTIAL JUSTICE. Hence Brotherhood is the
3. ALL BEINGS ARE ETERNAL IN THEIR SPIRITUAL ESSENCE. HENCE WE
ARE BROTHERS. WE ARE ALSO BROTHERS TO EVERY PLANT, MINERAL,
ANIMAL, WISE MAN, AND ALL THE BILLIONS OF STARS AND ATOMS IN THE
UNIVERSE. As A WHOLE WE ARE ONE. EVOLUTION IS THE SAME FOR ALL.
REINCARNATION IS THE SAME FOR ALL. VICE AND VIRTUE IS THE SAME
FOR ALL. THERE IS ONE DEITY, although many names are used to
She and the Masters (who are not dead and gone) are our
"leaders" -- Those, and the DIVINE HIGHER SELF within each of
us, which is, we might say, always is ONE WITH THEIRS.
Either immortality and individual responsibility are facts or the
whole theosophical effort is useless.
We have to decide on that -- as our own future lies in that
decision -- right there.
***Yes. But the Masters are not only into Theosophy - (when
talking litterature from before 1950 or something like that), of
one branch' own interpretation, there are 'other' PATHS (so to
speak), which the Masters - are taking care of.***
DTB BY ALL MEANS TEST ANY "OTHER PATHS" YOU FIND. BUT MAKE SURE
THAT THE FUNDAMENTALS YOU TEST THEM WITH ARE NOT HOPES, FEARS,
PARTIAL KNOWLEDGE, AND IF YOU HAVE ALREADY THE WISDOM TO DO
THIS, THEN YOU DO NOT NEED TO GO TO OTHER PATHS -- YOU HAVE YOUR
OWN ALREADY ESTABLISHED.
THE FACT THAT YOU (AND I) ARE "LOOKING" AND "TESTING" IMPLIES
THAT WE ARE NOT SURE.
As this is interesting, because of the physical Planets present
situation - I would like to ask you if you have any comments on
the Afghan author Idries Shah (d. 1996) ?? (You know HPB didn't
do much on the Middle East and the Sufis - because as she states,
that there was very few works transleted into european languages,
at her time of writing. -- Look in SD for that.)
feel free to do your best.
DTB H.P.Blavatsky DID WRITE IN COMPLIMENTARY TERMS ABOUT THE
MYSTICS AND THE SILENT AND SECRET INITIATES WHO WORKED IN AREAS
WHERE ISLAM IS / WAS THE GENERAL RELIGION.
I SAY: IF ISLAM MEANS "PEACE", THEN NON-VIOLENCE SHOULD BE ITS
CHARACTERISTIC. EVERYONE OUGHT TO TRUST IT.
From: M S
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: On authority....
Hi Dallas and all of you,
The below is just my view. There is no bitterness, no angry voice
There is just a wish to help us all to find our - PATH.
An answer to an answer: A sweet try Dallas.
"The THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY or any theosophical body does not
I agree very much with you. That is an answer.
Theosophy as I understand it - should be adapted to the time - of
evolution. It has always been that through the ages.
So we have, that it is not the faults of any theosophist - for
like Daniel, Dallas, P. Johnson etc. (if they have made any?)
which are important (although
faults are no good) - because they do not represent Theosophy.
It is the teachings which are more important ? Right ?
So we should all learn to write emails or even books on issues,
important - and not the opposite ?
This is year 2002. (I know that HPB was an important author
seen - and I will agree on that. And the pagenumber 39 is
the online Internet version ! So what Section/chapter did you
refer to ?)
The question is to be more specific:
How does authorities have it today, when we talk Theosophy - year
2002. Things has changed !
Is that not so?
Leadership is not the same today, for the more average persons,
as it was year 1888. The old times are gone - and the future is
Therefore Dallas let it be said about all of us, that we
understood, HOW TO formulate the ancient teachings of wisdom
(from year 1888) to people of the present time. Let it be said,
that we understood how to FORMULATE true Theosophy to the
interested public - year 2002. Therefore let us remember as HPB
did, that quoting old books are not always the proper manner of
We can only do our best. If we fail, we should be cared for and
helped like a little child, which has fallen - and whose mother
or father lifts it up again.
So there are no authorities here on theos-talk. It is just Maya
to think so !!!
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