Conversations with Krishnamurti 1/5
Jan 01, 1999 11:22 AM
by M K Ramadoss
In response to posting an excerpt on CWL's clairvoyance, some questions
were raised. I am posting the five part msg from which I excerpted the
Hi Rob, I'd like to follow your example and post a K text. I got it
from David Walker who gathered together a small e-mail group of people
interested in k. He mailed it to us in five discrete segments. I'll do
the same. I don't know enough about computers to do it otherwise.
David Walker wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> This is the first piece by Dr. Ruben Feldman-Gonzalez recalling
> his dialogues with Krishnamurti.
> P R O L O G U E
> During my encounters with people many asked me to write of my
> dialogues with Krishnamurti, even knowing I would be retrieving
> them only from my memory since only a few had been recorded.
> So it was that I started to think of writing some of my memories
> Nevertheless, some other friends felt that it was unnecessary to
> write my memories since Krishnamurti had done such a beautiful work
> of exposition of life and truth for mankind with his own books,
> videos and audiotapes.
> I hope that anyone who reads "My Dialogues with Krishnamurti" feels
> the need to read Krishnamurti himself.
> I have almost stopped reading, and if I do it is only to read
> "Krishnamurti Journals" or "Commentaries On Living" by Krishnamurti
> and "Collected Works of Krishnamurti" (17 volumes Kendall-Hunt)
> Looking For The North
> Political contradiction in Argentina was always high.
> It came to one of its highest points, though, by the end of August
> During this time a group of leftist, guerrilla men and women were
> killed while in jail at Trelew-Argentina, and I was horrified to
> hear that one of them had been a friend of the family.
> I started to get phone calls prompting me to take sides in the
> armed struggle: "If you are not for the left you are for the
> right", a man's voice had told me on the phone before he hung-up
> while I was taking care of a recently born baby in Villada,
> Argentina, Aug. 23rd 1972.
> The following day I went to Buenos Aires to get a visa to the
> U.S.A. (1972).
> If man looses respect for life we are all at risk from each other.
> Man becomes his own executioner.
> Only after two years I got a temporary visa to enter the U.S.A.
> Every Argentinian was suspicious then.
> I stopped over in Puerto Rico. There was a man there I wanted to
> meet: Enrique Biascoechea.
> I did meet him. He was dying. He had been a friend of Krishnamurti
> since age nine.
> He wrote a letter to Krishnamurti telling him that I had left
> behind my parents, two baby sons, possessions, friends, profession,
> comfort, and status in order to travel to meet with him.
> That was in June 1974. Enrique died in Nov 1974.
> After reaching the U.S. I soon found myself working 16 hours a day
> as a resident physician in Pennsylvania. I needed a dictionary to
> dictate my notes. Of the other eight hours of the day I spent four
> in the basement to study medicine in English to revalidate my
> license. I slept three or four hours a day and ate only once a day,
> taking coffee in the morning and again at lunchtime simply to keep
> myself awake.
> Sometimes I wondered how my body could bear so much abuse!
> I got letters from Argentina: "Misery. My family and my friends
> kept disappearing".
> I had given up hope to meet Krishnamurti when I got a letter from
> Mrs. Zimbalist, dated Jan. 5th 1975 in Ojai, California telling me
> I had a personal interview with Krishnamurti on march 23rd at 4
> P.M. at the Huntington Hotel in San Francisco, California.
> Mrs. Zimbalist volunteered her time for Krishnamurti as a devoted
> secretary. She is the widow of the late Sam Zimbalist who had
> produced the reknowned film "Ben Hur".
> At four P.M. on March 23rd 1975 sharp I knocked at Krishnamurti's
> door. Mrs. Zimbalist did everything to make me feel comfortable.
> Krishnmurti came after five minutes. I stood up from the armchair
> to shake his hand. He looked smaller than I expected him to be. He
> wore an old blue jacket. He sat in front of me with nothing in
> between the two chairs. Mrs. Zimbalist left silently.
> We sat there looking at each other. I will never be able to
> describe that moment when Krishnmurti was gazing at me.
> I felt at the same time all the love I had felt for my parents, my
> sons, my girlfriends, my friends (dead or alive)...
> There was long silence.
> Krishnamurti said: Biascoechea says you are ready to work for the
> I said: I may not be wise or free enough for that.
> Krishnamurti: You will.
> Ruben: What would the work imply?
> Krishnamurti: Publishing books, videos and tapes.
> Ruben: That implies managing money.
> Krishnamurti: Millions of dollars.
> Ruben: That horrifies me. I'm not ready for that. I thought
> I would have to travel with you, type your lectures
> from recorded tapes.... things like that.
> Krishnamurti: (Laughing) You can do more than that Dr...
> Ruben: My name is Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez.
> Krishnamurti: That's confusing, may I call you Dr. Gonzalez?
> Ruben: Of course, but my real name is Anger.
> Krishnamurti: (touching my left knee) Ah! I'm glad you don't wear
> a mask like so many that come to me pretending to be
> Ruben: I'm far from that. I feel a complete repugnance for
> the so-called political situation of Argentina, my
> country of birth, and even for the way my profession
> is practiced. I'm a pediatric surgeon. I had started
> to study psychiatry (July 1974) in Pennsylvania to
> see why the world has gone so crazy. Nevertheless I'm
> not impressed, the approach to treatment in
> psychiatry is conventional... standardized. I'll
> leave psychiatry too. I don't know what I will do.
> Krishnamurti: Don't leave psychiatry. Change it.
> Ruben: I never thought you would give me concrete advice
> like that. It sounds absurd though. Changing
> psychiatry sounds like changing the color of the
> crickets of the world.
> Krishnamurti: You have to change psychiatry.
> Ruben: I wish I knew what you meant.
> Krishnamurti: You have to meet Dr. David Bohm in London. Let's go
> there soon.
> Ruben: I wish I could, perhaps if I get a loan.
> Krishnamurti: No! Don't ask for a loan. You'll meet him soon
> Ruben: I need to make changes. I have no peace. Friends have
> disappeared in Argentina. Everything seems so chaotic
> and corrupt....
> Krishnamurti: (smiling) You need exercise (Krishnamurti touched my
> belly with the tip of his left index finger).
> Ruben: I work 16 hours a day and then I have to sit to study
> for four hours a day before I go to sleep. All this
> to renew my medical license in the USA.
> Krishnamurti: That's an excuse. Take care of yourself. You need
> exercise. You look like a bull.
> Ruben: Sometimes I feel that I need to share my
> understanding with people around the world. What do
> you say to that?
> Krishnamurti: You speak.
> A very long silence followed. I had expected him to tell me to
> "stay put" and spend the rest of my life in silent meditation. With
> very few words he was the perfect mirror for my own contradictions
> to emerge and be clearly seen.
> He insisted: The Foundation in Puerto Rico has no head. I hope
> you will take it (he grabbed my left knee).
> Ruben: Krishnaji, when I was with Biascoechea everything
> seemed so easy. Now I see I don't have the peace of
> mind, the right skills nor the freedom (the sons and
> two parents to feed) to dedicate myself sensibly to
> such an important and difficult task. It is certainly
> no picnic.
> Krishnamurti: I hope you take it.
> Another long silence followed.
> Krishnamurti discussed several items regarding the Foundation's
> translations, people like Salvado Sendra, Vimala Thakar, personal
> and ideological struggles within the Foundations, etc.
> Ruben: I'm eager to meet Salvador and Vimala... but people
> from the Fourth Path are trying to mix what you say
> with what others have said and are quite willing to
> control the Foundations.
> Krishnamurti: That has been going on all the time and not only with
> them. The Fourth Path is a path of violence which
> reinforces the ego and the wish to control life and
> its course. Do not touch it. The first insight is to
> drop everything non-essential for the total
> liberation of mankind.
> Ruben: Now that you mention the non-essential.... Why did
> you allow the biography of yours written by Lutyens
> to be published? It's gossipy and superficial, and it
> may not be right selling "At the Feet of the Master"
> ... with your name on it.
> Krishnamurti: Not my books.
> Ruben: And they are making a profit.
> Krishnamurti: It's not my business.
> Ruben: How would you recommend your books to be read, and
> in what order?
> Krishnamurti: Do not read them like a novel. Read slowly as if your
> life was in every word and every sentence. Start with
> the last one and then if there is an interest go
> backwards through the first one.
> Ruben: Should we read all your books?
> Krishnamurti: If you take a train in San Francisco to go to Los
> Angeles... would you get off in Santa Barabara?
> We both laughed. One had to laugh very often in the company of
> Krishnamurti. Today the order of the books would be:
> "Ending of Time"
> "The Awakening of Intelligence"
> "Commentaries on Living"
> "Freedom from the Known", etc.
> "Collected Works" (1933-67)
> I asked: Why don't you eat meat?
> He answered: Pity.
> I expected a longer lecture but that was all he said. Again a long
> silence. The silence was alive, the silence of two alert friends
> seeing together the same thing at the same time.
> He stood up and said. "Excuse me Dr. Gonzalez, I'll prepare some
> tea for you".
> At the kitchen in the big suite he whispered something with Mrs.
> Zimbalist who was sitting there.
> He came back with a cup of tea. He said: "Tea of roses for you".
> I sipped it, but I didn't like it. I left it on the little table
> beside us.
> Ruben: Can we talk about meditation?
> Krishnamurti: Is there anything else?
> Ruben: Well, the very word meditation is used by gurus of
> all kinds to make money, sell silly books,
> techniques, pillows, crystals, mantras, and incense.
> Krishnamurti: I have been using the word for 50 years. I can't
> change it now. People will have to see I use the word
> with a different meaning. I do not use the word
> meditation with its traditional meaning!
> Ruben: What about using the expression "Unitary Perception"
> Krishnamurti: You use it.
> (Krishnamurti said he would not use the word meditation anymore
> during his last talk in England in 1985, ten years later.)
> Krishnamurti: Why not live very simply?
> Call it meditation or Unitary Perception.
> Self protection and self aggrandizement through money
> making and success have to end in order to live
> simply. To live simply is to live intelligently,
> without an observer in observation. If you believe
> you have to go back to Argentina to be loyal to some
> concept of yours you are not simple. If you are angry
> you are not simple. If you are full of sorrow you
> can't love anyone. Can you be spontaneous and simply
> act with not too much planning?
> Ruben: You are not saying I have to remain alone and live in
> poverty and silence.
> Krishnamurti: Would that be simple?
> Would you be escaping from life?
> The consummation of truth is not to be successful or
> wealthy... but do you want complete truth?
> Look for success or money and you'll find
> frustration. Look for truth and you'll receive total
> peace of mind and joy. Will you be one of the few? Or
> will you continue being one of the many worshippers
> of money and success?
> After a long silence, he said: "Dr. Gonzalez, your tea must be cold
> already, finish it!"
> I didn't have the courage to say no and I did finish it silently.
> He said: "Let's meet tomorrow at eight A.M.
> Krishnamurti went with me to the door, opened it for me and smiled
> lovingly saying: "Good bye".
> I said: What noun should be applied to what you teach--
> "message", "gospel",..., or what?
> Krishnamurti said: Call it "the teachings". Let's meet tomorrow
> at eight A.M., right here.
> I spend the rest of the afternoon by myself in my room, which I had
> rented at the same hotel where Krishnamurti was staying.
> I felt like a Condor for the rest of the day.
> I met Krishnamurti by chance in the lobby that evening. I walked
> with him for awhile.
> I saw a couple of very beautiful girls.
> I said: "God, how beautiful they are".
> He said: "Only well fed".
> I said: "Krishnaji, I felt like a Condor the whole afternoon, full
> of peace and joy and love. I think it's because I spent some time
> with you."
> Krishnamurti said: "For how long do you want to be infected?"
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